A Decade of Silence: Unraveling the Haunting Disappearance of Sarah and Jacob Hoggle

[00:00:00] The case featured in this episode has been researched using police records, court documents,

[00:00:05] witness statements and the news. Listener discretion is advised. All parties mentioned

[00:00:11] our innocent until proven guilty in all opinions are my own. Hey everyone, my name is Nikki Young

[00:00:37] and this is Serial Napper, the True Crime Podcast for an apps. I'm back with another True Crime

[00:00:43] story too, while you to sleep or perhaps even nightmares. On September 8, 2014, Troy Turner

[00:00:50] walked into a police station in Maryland to report that his girlfriend, Katherine Hoggle and

[00:00:56] their youngest children were missing. He claimed that he had a woken in their apartment that

[00:01:01] morning to find them gone. Only their eldest son remained at their home. It was alarming,

[00:01:07] but Troy was relieved when just a few hours later, Katherine returned to explain that

[00:01:13] she had actually dropped three-year-old Sarah and two-year-old Jacob off at a new daycare center.

[00:01:19] Panic once again said in, when it was time to head out in their minivan to pick up the children

[00:01:24] and Katherine seemed to be giving him the wrong directions. Katherine, who had a history of

[00:01:30] mental illness, directed Troy to several different locations, but the children they'd brought

[00:01:36] there. Finally, she asked if they could stop at a Chick-fil-A for a drink which they did,

[00:01:43] but when Katherine walked inside the restaurant, she slipped out the back door and disappeared

[00:01:48] for four days. During that time, Troy had no idea where his two smallest children and his girlfriend

[00:01:55] could be. However, Katherine was picked up by the police after those four days and arrested on

[00:02:01] charges of neglect and hindering an investigation. She was not cooperative in providing any details

[00:02:08] of Sarah and Jacob's wearabouts. She would later have her charges upgraded to murder,

[00:02:14] though those charges would be dropped when she was committed to a state psychiatric hospital.

[00:02:20] It has been 10 years since Sarah and Jacob Hogel went missing, and the key to their wearabouts lies

[00:02:27] within their mother, Katherine, who continues to refuse to provide any information that could

[00:02:33] lead to finding them. So, dim the lights, put your phone down and listen to the story of Sarah

[00:02:40] and Jacob Hogel, an a decade long search to find out what happened to these children

[00:02:44] and how much their mother really knows. So let's jump right in.

[00:02:50] Katherine Hogel struggled with mental illness began at a fairly early age. Born to her parents

[00:02:57] Lindsey and Randy Hogel, she was the eldest of four and she was known to be really smart.

[00:03:04] At one point, her IQ was tested at 135, which is considered to be high. Despite this,

[00:03:11] her struggles with completing her classwork began when she was in middle school. Her executive

[00:03:16] function issues caused her to struggle with planning and organization, and she was diagnosed with

[00:03:22] a learning disability, but it was more than that. Her parents noticed that she began to have

[00:03:28] extreme mood swings much more severe than the ones typically experienced by teenagers. The

[00:03:34] doctors thought that she could have bipolar disorder. This would be just the beginning of her

[00:03:40] long battle with mental illness. Katherine graduated from high school, enrolled in a community

[00:03:46] college and then found herself a job working as a waitress at a local sports bar called the Green

[00:03:52] Turtle. This is where she met Troy Turner, a balancer at the bar. The pair quickly fell in love,

[00:04:00] a romance that Katherine at one point described as like a fairy tale. Their love was real

[00:04:07] but not without difficulties. Katherine continued to struggle with severe mental illness over the

[00:04:13] years that would require strong medication and bouts of hospitalization, eventually leading to

[00:04:20] a diagnosis of schizophrenia. In between those difficult moments, there were times of joy as they

[00:04:28] grew their family together in a small apartment located in Clarksburg, Maryland. Their first

[00:04:34] child was a boy, born in the fall of 2008. We won't be naming him here. He's now a teenager and

[00:04:41] the poor boy has been through so much trauma. The only thing that he deserves is answers, not added

[00:04:47] unnecessary attention. Being a first-time mom and experiencing all of the physical and mental

[00:04:53] changes that come with motherhood was particularly difficult for Katherine. Troy worked full-time

[00:04:59] job selling time shares, which left Katherine to care for the baby. But with her mental health issues,

[00:05:07] it was far too much for her to handle all on her own. Luckily for Katherine, her family, especially

[00:05:13] her mother Lindsay, really stepped up to assist her with the new family taking the baby for two days

[00:05:19] each week so that Katherine could have a moment to breathe. But everyone noticed how Katherine was acting

[00:05:26] unusual, perhaps a little bit overtentive. On one occasion, when Lindsay was watching her new

[00:05:33] grandson, Katherine shoved an index card into her back pocket that had very specific instructions

[00:05:40] that she was to follow, including exactly how she was to mix the baby formula and the feeding

[00:05:46] schedule that she needed to follow, along with reminders not to have any pillows or stuffies in the

[00:05:56] same space in a different time. One where my bassinet was overflowing with blankets, pillows and toys,

[00:06:03] which is now not advised by medical professionals due to being a hazard for suffocation or since.

[00:06:10] But I trusted my parents to do their best to watch my children. At the same time, I also wanted

[00:06:15] to make sure that they followed my guidelines. Guidelines that they may not have necessarily had

[00:06:21] back then when they were raising me. However, Katherine's over attentiveness, it soon turned to Paranoia.

[00:06:29] According to her boyfriend Troy, Katherine became obsessively worried that people were trying to

[00:06:35] destroy their family to break them up to keep them apart. At the time, he brushed it off as postpartum

[00:06:42] depression, but things only became worse when they had their second child. A little girl named Sarah

[00:06:49] who was born in 2010. All of the worry, stress and paranoia from the first pregnancy,

[00:06:55] it seemed to double. Katherine's family rallied together to step in and help as much as possible,

[00:07:02] taking care of the babies for Katherine and providing her with any support that they could.

[00:07:07] Just two years after Sarah was born, Katherine and Troy's family was completed with the birth

[00:07:13] of a little boy named Jacob in 2012. The apartment that they were living in was now much too small,

[00:07:20] so they moved into a larger three-bedroom apartment that was located in the family-friendly

[00:07:25] neighborhood of Montgomery. They enjoyed family time at nearby parks and the pool. Meanwhile,

[00:07:32] Katherine's paranoia was about to come to a head. In 2013, Troy alleged that Katherine became obsessed

[00:07:41] with the idea that his sister was breaking into their apartment and stealing things. She claimed that

[00:07:47] his sister had taken a pack of toddler undershirts, valued at about $12, and a $30 toy yellow lion

[00:07:55] walker. Katherine also believed that Troy's sister was following her, watching her,

[00:08:02] to the point that she attempted to file a restraining order against her. She wrote in her request

[00:08:08] quote, We go to the grocery store. She shows up there. We start going to a different grocery store.

[00:08:14] She starts showing up there. I go to take my kids to the pediatrician. She shows up there.

[00:08:21] I go to my mom's house. She shows up there. The restraining order was denied and the police decided

[00:08:27] that there was wasn't enough evidence to pursue charges against Troy's sister with regards to those

[00:08:33] theft allegations. Troy wasn't really sure what to believe. He was stuck between what his girlfriend

[00:08:39] was alleging and his sister who was denying that any of it was true. However, it was soon

[00:08:46] becoming clear that Katherine was imagining things. She was supposed to be taking her medications

[00:08:52] and continuing to see her doctor but as her behavior worsened, it wasn't clear if she was

[00:08:59] continuing to do either of those things. Katherine constantly spoke about being watched,

[00:09:06] followed and listened to, even alleging that their vehicle was bugged. She believed that there were

[00:09:12] people in her circle that were trying to maliciously have her committed to an institution

[00:09:16] and take her children away from her. Troy shared his concerns about Katherine's behavior with

[00:09:23] her family and together they thought that the best course of action would be to seek a court-ordered

[00:09:29] psychiatric evaluation. Katherine was uncooperative, so when the police showed up at the family

[00:09:36] apartment on August 13, 2013 she had to be handcuffed in front of the children and taken to the hospital.

[00:09:44] At the time she was committed, her youngest baby Jacob was still breastfeeding, so she actually

[00:09:50] tried to express milk and then send it to her family in order to keep nourishing her baby.

[00:09:56] Although she was mentally suffering, her love for her children did not waver.

[00:10:02] The hospital couldn't hold her for long, so she would be released back home until her next

[00:10:07] episode when the police would need to be called again to intervene. Eventually, she would be involuntarily

[00:10:14] committed to the Shepherd Pratt Psychiatric Hospital. This is where she was treated for her

[00:10:19] schizophrenia with a whole slew of medications that caused horrible side effects like slurred

[00:10:26] speech and hand tremors. Over the course of about nine months of treatment, she was eventually

[00:10:32] moved to an outpatient program where she could have supervised visits with her children,

[00:10:38] and then eventually she was released back to her family in the summer of 2014.

[00:10:44] According to her family, once she was released, she seemed to be doing a lot better.

[00:10:49] Katherine seemed to understand that, in order to live with her children,

[00:10:53] in order to keep custody of them, she needed to keep her mental illness under control by

[00:10:58] continuing to take her medications consistently and by continuing to go to therapy.

[00:11:04] It was obvious that she wanted to be there for her children. She enjoyed reading them bed time

[00:11:10] books and taking her eldest son to his soccer games, but she would need a lot of help to do it.

[00:11:17] Katherine was on heavy medications to treat her mental illness, so she wasn't supposed to be

[00:11:23] alone with the babies. It wasn't a matter of her not caring for them. Katherine was a very

[00:11:28] loving and attentive mother. Her children were her world, but the medications that she was on

[00:11:34] they could make her drowsy and out of it. Not a great situation when having to care for three little ones.

[00:11:41] Katherine's parents didn't want the state to have to step in and take her children away from

[00:11:46] that would absolutely devastate her. So together they created this plan that included her siblings,

[00:11:53] some of their friends and other babysitters. It was important. It was key. It was crucial

[00:11:59] that Katherine always had another adult around when she was taking care of her children.

[00:12:05] They weren't concerned that she was going to hurt her babies. They were just worried about the

[00:12:09] possible effects of her medications or worst case scenario, her delusions returning.

[00:12:16] The family plan involved a lot of helping hands, a lot of work and a lot of balancing

[00:12:22] between Katherine and Troy's apartment and her mother Lindsay's house, but it worked for the most part.

[00:12:29] One small slip-up from the usual routine would change the course of their lives forever.

[00:12:35] The date was September 7, 2014. Katherine had only been out of the outpatient program for a few

[00:12:42] months at this point. The day started off as any other Sunday. Their eldest son had a soccer

[00:12:49] game and the whole family including Troy, Katherine and their youngest babies Jacob and Sarah

[00:12:54] they went to this game. When the game was over they all went to a park. It was a happy family day

[00:13:02] where the kids had a total blast. One that Troy now says he'll never forget. It will be

[00:13:08] forever ingrained in his mind. Later that evening Troy had to leave for work so he drove Katherine,

[00:13:16] their eldest boy, Sarah and Jacob over to Katherine's mom's Lindsay's house. Lindsay was out that

[00:13:22] night but Katherine's dad Randy was around to watch things. It was around 4pm when Katherine

[00:13:28] mentioned to her dad Randy that she had a coupon for pizza so she asked for permission to take

[00:13:34] his card to go pick it up. She also asked if she could take her son, her little-ass one,

[00:13:39] Jacob, who was basically hanging off of her. Normally the plan was to always have another adult

[00:13:45] with Katherine and her children but Randy thought just this once it should be fine. He had been

[00:13:52] watching his daughter interact with her children the last few months and she seemed to be doing

[00:13:57] so well. So Katherine left to go get the pizza with little to-year-old Jacob in tow.

[00:14:05] Approximately two hours later Katherine's mom Lindsay returned to the home and she and Randy

[00:14:11] discussed how they were worried that Katherine and Jacob hadn't returned yet. How long could it

[00:14:16] possibly take to just go grab some pizza? So Randy jumped in Lindsay's car and he drove around

[00:14:22] the whole town looking for the two but there was no sign of her or Jacob. It wasn't until around

[00:14:29] 720pm that Katherine returned to the house but without Jacob. When her parents asked where Jacob

[00:14:36] was she said she had left him with her downstairs neighbor for a sleepover. It was a plan to sleep

[00:14:42] over that. Apparently she hadn't mentioned until now. Jacob was only two years old at this point.

[00:14:47] Far too young to enjoy a sleepover and this was the first time she had mentioned this supposed

[00:14:53] plans to sleepover. So this immediately raised some alarms but her parents tried not to make the

[00:15:00] situation any more tense in that moment. About an hour later it was decided that Katherine's dad

[00:15:06] Randy would drive her and her two older children back home to their apartment where they would then

[00:15:12] wait for Troy to come home. Later that evening around midnight Troy arrived back to the apartment

[00:15:18] from work. He noticed that Jacob wasn't in his bed but he just assumed that he had crawled into bed

[00:15:25] with his older sibling because it was something that he often liked to do. So he went to

[00:15:30] bed and lay down next to Katherine unaware that anything was wrong until the following morning.

[00:15:36] Troy was awakened by his eldest son who was eager to get to school. At that point he realized

[00:15:44] that Katherine and the two younger children Jacob and Sarah they weren't there. So he tried not to

[00:15:50] panic, he called Katherine's mother to see if maybe she had heard from her but she hadn't.

[00:15:56] And after the prior evening's odd events regarding the pizza and asleepover she told Troy

[00:16:02] that he should probably call 911. Troy didn't want to alarm his eldest son so first he walked

[00:16:08] the boy to the bus stop to drop him off and then he called 911 but that's when Katherine showed

[00:16:15] up in their minivan without either of their children. She told Troy not to worry he didn't need to

[00:16:21] call 911 she just wanted to let him sleep so she had dropped the kids off at a new day care

[00:16:27] because they were having these trial classes. They could go together to pick them up later on.

[00:16:33] So Troy told the 911 operator it was a false alarm. Then Troy took Katherine to her treatment

[00:16:39] program that afternoon. Around 2 p.m. Troy picked Katherine up from treatment and then he waited

[00:16:45] for directions to this supposed day care where she said she had left Sarah and Jacob.

[00:16:51] Again, he tried not to panic as Katherine gave him directions but the directions seem to

[00:16:57] lead him to dead ends. Katherine claims that she couldn't remember the name of the day care

[00:17:03] but she thought that she could give him the directions to find it so they drove around for

[00:17:09] several hours with Katherine directing him to locations where there was no sign of the children

[00:17:15] or a day care. That's when Troy became frustrated and very concerned so he began driving towards

[00:17:22] the police station. Katherine asked if they could first stop but a chick delay so that she could get a

[00:17:28] drink and Troy agreed. He parked in the lot and Katherine walked into the front doors of the

[00:17:34] restaurant and she never walked out. As he waited for her to return, he realized she wasn't going

[00:17:41] to because she had slipped out the back door. It's time for a quick break and a word from tonight

[00:17:47] sponsors. Hang on I'll be back before you know it. Now back to our story. She would disappear

[00:17:58] for four grueling days as her boyfriend, her family and the police all scrambled to find

[00:18:05] her and her two children. Good morning. I'd be remiss if I didn't start

[00:18:11] Lazy and Joe and By thinking Montgomery County Police Department. They have worked tirelessly.

[00:18:17] There are so many people trying to help and we just appreciate that tremendously. I don't

[00:18:24] use the cry so I apologize. Lazy and Joe and By could I really am saying this for my daughter

[00:18:31] and this is a plea to my daughter to come home and have help. Many people deal with mental illness,

[00:18:41] many families deal with mental illness. It's always a judgment about medication and

[00:18:48] the delicate balance of medication being taken. We know she's probably not been on medication

[00:18:53] for two weeks and thus we know Katherine this is not you and this is not who you're about and what

[00:18:58] you do. You were the first to four kids to give me a chance to be soccer coach.

[00:19:06] Probably it was never good at it but certainly did my best. You and Troy have given me a chance to

[00:19:14] have on the soccer team. Next week we're going to work on going toward the right goal

[00:19:21] but we want Sarah and Jacob to have those same kind of opportunities. The first kids,

[00:19:26] the first homecoming, the last prom and a full life and we want you to do that as well.

[00:19:33] Everyone here is committed to if you just come and get help, we'll all help you.

[00:19:39] And for that I just want to say please come home. We miss you and we miss the kids.

[00:19:45] There was no sign of any of them. Then on the fourth day of the search the police apprehended

[00:19:51] Katherine and she was found wandering the streets without her children. When they took her down

[00:19:56] to the station to question her about the whereabouts a little Sarah and Jacob,

[00:20:01] she flat out refused to give them any information. They called Katherine's family and her boyfriend

[00:20:08] Troy to give them the update. She had been found safe but the children they were still missing

[00:20:13] and she wasn't telling them where they were. Investigators thought that maybe Troy could get

[00:20:18] information from her so they asked him to speak with her in the interrogation room. Now according

[00:20:24] to Troy, when you went in there Katherine seemed incredibly calm, especially considering the

[00:20:29] circumstances. Much more calm than she had been in recent weeks. Troy asked her point blank where

[00:20:37] the children were and the only new details that she was willing to provide was that she had

[00:20:42] left them with some mystery woman named Erin. No one knew who Erin was and Katherine,

[00:20:48] she wasn't giving anything more than this name. To her parents, she assured them that the

[00:20:54] children were safe it was all a part of the plan but she couldn't tell them anything else.

[00:21:00] No one knew whether she was being truthful or not, whether the kids were safe with a woman

[00:21:06] named Erin or if Katherine had done the unthinkable and hurt her babies. Because she wasn't

[00:21:13] cooperating, she was charged with abduction, neglect and hindering a police investigation to find

[00:21:19] the missing children. However her mental state was questionable. Katherine would be held in

[00:21:25] the Maryland jail for 11 days without any medication or the opportunity to speak with a psychiatrist.

[00:21:33] This is a young woman who suffered with severe mental issues and she was on a very strong

[00:21:39] medication that helped to keep her thoughts straight. Her children were now missing, she was the

[00:21:45] only one who held the details to find them and while she wasn't speaking, she would have been going

[00:21:51] through intense withdrawal from not taking her meds on top of experiencing moments of the psychosis.

[00:21:58] Unfortunately, the procedure for dealing with suspects who suffer from mental illness is that they

[00:22:04] will be transferred to a psychiatric facility but within 14 days. Two weeks is an awful long time for

[00:22:13] someone who requires serious intervention to go with other medications. We'll never know now if

[00:22:19] Katherine had access to her meds, whether or not she may have been in a better position to think

[00:22:24] clearly about the situation but I thought it was important to know. Eventually, she would be

[00:22:29] transferred to a maximum security psychiatric hospital where doctors would need to determine whether or not

[00:22:35] she was mentally competent enough to stand trial. During that time, she gave no specific

[00:22:41] information regarding the children's wearabouts. However, one evaluation indicated that she was

[00:22:48] not mentally competent to understand her surroundings or what was happening. On November 6, 2014,

[00:22:55] almost two months after the children vanished. A court hearing was held for the very first time in

[00:23:01] person. It was highly emotional, especially when it was revealed that Katherine had told several

[00:23:07] family members over the phone that she had wanted to take investigators to wear the children were.

[00:23:14] While psychiatric patients aren't typically allowed to ever leave the hospital grounds for any reason,

[00:23:19] the state attorney petitioned the judge to give Katherine permission to go with the police in a car

[00:23:24] and direct them to wear the children were, especially because she kept claiming that the kids

[00:23:29] were still alive so the matter was urgent. Maybe they could be found and saved.

[00:23:36] Her family hoped that the judge would agree to this request, but Katherine's own attorney thought

[00:23:42] against it. He reminded the court that Katherine had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia

[00:23:48] and she had only recently been suffering from psychosis. He also stated that Katherine told

[00:23:55] him directly that she changed her mind and she didn't want to go with the detectives anymore.

[00:24:00] To the disappointment of many, the judge denied the prosecutors' request to allow Katherine

[00:24:06] to leave the hospital to go with the police to lead them to her children. He also ordered

[00:24:12] the police to not conduct any further interviews with her until she had been declared

[00:24:17] mentally competent. It was frustrating, defeating, but the search for little Sarah and Jacob Hoggle continued.

[00:24:26] Police dogs, altering vehicles and horses were used to complete a thorough investigation,

[00:24:32] a thorough search for any and everywhere that they could think to look. There wasn't really much

[00:24:39] to go on though, unfortunately. They had a lot of tips come in, but nothing really paned out.

[00:24:44] However early on in the investigation, police found something that they thought could be

[00:24:50] evidence. They thought it could be a tip. It was possible that Katherine had changed

[00:24:56] two year old Jacob's appearance. The adorable little boy was known for his curly blonde hair,

[00:25:03] but some of his hair had been found in Troy's hair trimmer back at the apartment days after

[00:25:08] disappearance. Katherine may have shade the little boy's head, which would have drastically changed

[00:25:15] his appearance and made it much more difficult for people to immediately recognize the child.

[00:25:21] Did she also change little Sarah's appearance? Anything was possible. Katherine continued to insist

[00:25:29] that her children were alive, but as time passed on with no solid leads, no eye sightings,

[00:25:36] witnesses, the police began to wonder how truthful her statements really were. In April 2015,

[00:25:44] July in September of 2015 and again in June 2016, court hearings were held a determined weather

[00:25:50] Katherine was competent to stand trial. And each time she was found not to be. She was coming

[00:25:56] up on three years of being held in an institution while waiting to be tried for her crimes.

[00:26:01] And this was a problem for the prosecution because Marilyn, they have a law that states a person

[00:26:08] who has been found mentally incompetent and who is facing misdemeanor charges,

[00:26:12] they could only be held for a maximum of three years. With absolutely no indication

[00:26:18] that the children were still alive despite what Katherine maintained, her charges were upgraded to

[00:26:24] two counts of felony murder, which would hopefully buy them more time to try to get her in a position

[00:26:30] where she could be found competent to stand trial. That day would never come. In November 2022,

[00:26:39] a judge dismissed the murder charges. Katherine Hoggle would not be found competent to stand trial,

[00:26:45] and the law only allowed for those charges to stick around for five years before they had to be dropped.

[00:26:52] Of course, that doesn't mean that she's been released. She continues to be institutionalized

[00:26:58] to this day, and she continues to maintain that the children are alive. That this was all a part

[00:27:05] of a plan to keep her children from being taken away from her by the state. Sadly, in enacting

[00:27:12] this plan, she has taken Sarah and Jacob away from everyone, including their father Troy

[00:27:19] and their older brother. So what really happened to Sarah and Jacob Hoggle? The first theory is that

[00:27:26] Katherine has been telling the truth. That the children were given to someone and that they are still alive.

[00:27:33] This is something that she has continued to tell her family, including her ex-boyfriend Troy,

[00:27:39] that she gave them to someone who she trusted, someone possibly named Erin.

[00:27:45] It's a difficult theory to believe after so much time has passed and with all of the media attention

[00:27:50] that this case has received. But age-progress photos of both children who would now be in their early

[00:27:56] teens, they continue to be released. There's just been a new one released since it's been 10

[00:28:01] years since their disappearance. They were both very little, just two and three when this happened.

[00:28:07] So it's possible that if they are alive today, they have no recollection of Katherine,

[00:28:14] Troy or their other family members, or what happened to them.

[00:28:18] Obviously, this is all a theory that we want to believe, that we'd love to believe. But the police

[00:28:25] and even Troy himself, they don't think it's the most likely theory. The other theory is that

[00:28:32] Katherine killed the children, perhaps in a state of psychosis. Her family had noted that she

[00:28:38] did seem to be doing better, but she had only been out of a mental health facility for a couple of months

[00:28:44] when all of this happened. So it's possible that Katherine did kill her children and doesn't

[00:28:49] even remember doing it herself. According to her defense attorney David Felsin,

[00:28:55] we may never know the truth of it. In a recent interview he said quote,

[00:29:00] At the time of the children's disappearance, Miss Hoggle was in the throes of a severe mental

[00:29:05] health crisis. She was schizophrenic, she was paranoid, she was delusional. As a result I don't think

[00:29:12] ever have a credible story of what happened to the children, and that is a tragedy for everyone.

[00:29:19] And yet there are those including Katherine's ex-boyfriend and Sarah Jacobs' father, Troy,

[00:29:25] who believe that she knows more than what she is letting on. That with a high IQ of 135,

[00:29:33] she has avoided facing a jury all of these years by exaggerating her mental incapacity,

[00:29:39] that she's much more aware of what she did and the crimes that she's facing than people think,

[00:29:46] that she's doing this to avoid jail time and she knows what's up. Unfortunately,

[00:29:52] there is only one person who knows the truth of it all, and it's unclear whether those memories

[00:29:58] have been lost forever to her battle with mental illness. Sarah and Jacobs' family, especially their

[00:30:04] father, Troy, is not giving up looking for them and will not give up until they are found.

[00:30:11] If you have any information about the Miss Hoggle children, please call NCMEC at 1-800-843-5688 or you can

[00:30:21] call the Montgomery County Police at 301-279-8000. That's it for me today. If you want to read

[00:30:31] you can find me on Facebook at serial number. You can find my audio, on Apple or Spotify or

[00:30:39] wherever you listen to podcasts. I post all of my episodes in video format over on YouTube so go check

[00:30:46] out and if you're watching on YouTube, I'd love if you can give me a thumbs up and subscribe.

[00:30:53] I'm over on X formerly known as Twitter at serial underscore napper and at postings on tiptock serial

[00:31:00] napper nicken that's all one word. Until next time, sweet dreams stay kind, especially in the comments. Bye!