Reena Virk: Lured With the Promise of Friendship

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, my name is Nikki Young and this is Serial Napper, the number one true crime

[00:00:23] podcast for Naps.

[00:00:25] I'm back with another true crime story to low you to sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares.

[00:00:31] 14 year old British Columbia teenager Reena Burke struggled to fit in, she was relentlessly

[00:00:37] bullied from elementary school all the way to high school, self-conscious about her looks

[00:00:42] and struggling with her strict religious parents rules times were tough.

[00:00:47] So on November 14th 1997 when she received a phone call inviting her out to a social

[00:00:53] gathering she gladly accepted, she had no idea that the invite was all a part of a revenge

[00:00:59] plan retaliation for allegedly spreading rumors about one of the other girls.

[00:01:06] Shortly after arriving she was swarmed by a group of 18-agers and severely beaten when

[00:01:12] she tried to get away and stumble home two of them followed her and dragged her down

[00:01:17] below a bridge where they continued to beat her before drowning her in the water.

[00:01:23] Reena's brutal murder at the hands of a group of teens prompted people across the country

[00:01:28] to take a closer look at growing violence and bullying amongst young Canadians and it's

[00:01:33] a crucial reminder of the importance of raising an empathetic, caring future generation.

[00:01:40] So let's jump right in.

[00:01:43] Canada is seen by a lot of the rest of the world as very safe and friendly, which is true

[00:01:48] but Canada certainly isn't immune to violence, bullying and murder.

[00:01:54] I was 11 years old when the story of the brutal murder of 14-year-old Reena Burke was front

[00:01:59] page of every newspaper.

[00:02:02] She was so young and then to be killed so violently by a gang of her peers it was shocking.

[00:02:09] It was also a wake up call for a lot of Canadians that we aren't always as friendly, welcoming

[00:02:14] and accepting as we think we are.

[00:02:17] It was as confronting back then as it is today which is why I feel it's so important

[00:02:21] to talk about this case in 2024.

[00:02:24] Reena Burke was born on March 10th, 1983 to her parents Sumon and Manjit Burke who had

[00:02:31] immigrated to Canada from India and were now living in Saunich, British Columbia.

[00:02:36] She was the eldest of three children and she spent much of her early years living in

[00:02:40] the community of View Royal, an area of more than 11,000 residents near Greater Victoria.

[00:02:47] Unlike most other families of Indian descent in Canada who practice Hinduism or Sikhism,

[00:02:53] Reena's parents converted to become Jehovah's Witnesses when she was a child.

[00:02:58] Because of this, I've read that her family was described as being quote, a minority within

[00:03:03] a minority.

[00:03:04] They were rare.

[00:03:05] The rules at home were very strict as Reena's parents were devout Jehovah Witnesses.

[00:03:12] No smoking, no swearing, no celebrations of holidays or special days like birthdays.

[00:03:18] Certain music and clothing were absolutely banned.

[00:03:22] For a teenage girl, it would have been difficult to follow because it wasn't a path that

[00:03:27] she would have chosen for herself.

[00:03:29] And Reena, she already had struggled with her self confidence and dealing with bullies.

[00:03:34] All around, it was a troubling time.

[00:03:37] It started in elementary school and then moved into middle school.

[00:03:40] Reena was bullied because of the way that she looked and because of her race.

[00:03:45] She began to change.

[00:03:47] She became angry and depressed and she was even picking fights at school with the other

[00:03:52] kids.

[00:03:53] Being relentlessly bullied especially from such an early age, it changes the very fabric

[00:03:58] of who a person is.

[00:04:00] It broke her parents' hearts to watch their beautiful daughter come home from school

[00:04:04] each day and then basically fall apart in front of them, emotionally drained from what

[00:04:10] she had to endure that day.

[00:04:12] In 1994 when Reena was 11 years old, they decided to move to a different neighborhood where

[00:04:17] she could attend a different school.

[00:04:20] They enrolled her at Burnside Elementary School and at first things seemed to be getting better.

[00:04:26] It was a fresh start, a chance to start over and make some friends.

[00:04:31] Their daughter appeared to be settling in well.

[00:04:33] She seemed really happy at first but unfortunately that happiness was short lived.

[00:04:39] As one of her closest new friends turned her back on her and then the bullying it resumed.

[00:04:45] When she graduated to middle school, Reena found her place with a group of rebellious

[00:04:50] preteens.

[00:04:51] They were the kids who liked to drink, smoke, skip school, push back against authority and

[00:04:58] because Reena was desperate to fit in wherever she could, she sort of changed to join this

[00:05:03] circle.

[00:05:05] It was also a way for her to protest her parents' strict religious rules so she herself started

[00:05:11] to drink, smoke and push back against authority right along with them as her parents desperately

[00:05:18] tried to keep her on the straight and narrow.

[00:05:20] They would remind her of the rules she had to follow as a Jehovah Witness and they would

[00:05:26] read her scriptures which only made Reena want to rebel even more.

[00:05:31] She wanted out of her parents' home anyway possible and she was about to do something that

[00:05:37] would shock her entire family.

[00:05:40] Now I want to note here that Reena's father holds no ill will against her for what

[00:05:44] she did at the time.

[00:05:46] She was a very lost young girl who struggled to find her way amidst constant bullying.

[00:05:51] Because of her parents' strict religion, she wasn't finding the support that she desperately

[00:05:56] needed or wanted at home.

[00:05:58] In her young naive mind, she felt like it would be better if she lived somewhere else,

[00:06:05] somewhere away from her parents so she made up a lie, a really horrific lie that would

[00:06:11] tear their family apart.

[00:06:14] At 13 years old, Reena accused her father of sexually abusing her.

[00:06:19] She claimed that she had been physically, mentally and sexually abused at home.

[00:06:24] One particularly horrendous story that she told involved being hit with a hammer tied to

[00:06:29] a chair and threatened with a heated barbecue utensil.

[00:06:33] Now when a child tells a story like this, they should be immediately believed while things

[00:06:38] are being investigated and she was believed.

[00:06:41] Her father, Manji, was arrested on charges of sexual abuse.

[00:06:45] She was removed from her parents' custody and then at first she was placed with her

[00:06:49] grandmother for a short time.

[00:06:52] When this living situation didn't work out either, Reena was then placed into foster

[00:06:57] care.

[00:06:58] I want to note here that Reena's father denies these allegations and the charges were

[00:07:02] later dropped because Reena herself admitted that she had lied about the abuse.

[00:07:07] Her family was seriously concerned that she was making up these stories just to get away

[00:07:12] from them so they pushed for a full investigation to be done.

[00:07:16] If Reena was claiming to be getting hurt and they weren't the ones doing it at home, maybe

[00:07:21] someone else out there was.

[00:07:23] But unfortunately Reena, she remained in foster care while none of her claims were ever

[00:07:27] investigated or corroborated by other sources.

[00:07:32] So as you can imagine, things did not improve for Reena while living in foster care.

[00:07:37] She was moved from a foster home into a group home eventually and it was tough.

[00:07:43] She wasn't given the freedom that she desperately wanted and she missed her family.

[00:07:48] While she admitted to authorities that she had lied about the abuse, she was forced

[00:07:52] to continue to live at the foster home at the group home.

[00:07:55] Still, she tried to fix the broken relationship that she now had with her parents in hopes

[00:08:01] of someday being able to return home, even asking her foster family if she could spend the

[00:08:06] night at her parents' house every so often.

[00:08:10] Her family wasn't perfect, but she needed their love and support now more than ever.

[00:08:16] The bullying at school had only escalated.

[00:08:20] Her father would say that classmates would put gum in her hair, tease her about her appearance

[00:08:25] and threaten to beat her up.

[00:08:27] Recently she had been accused by some of the other local teen girls that she was spreading

[00:08:32] rumors.

[00:08:33] One of these girls accused Reena of trying to steal her boyfriend.

[00:08:37] Teenagers, in particular teenage girls, can be absolutely vicious.

[00:08:42] Typically they aren't as physically violent as teenage boys but any female who has gone

[00:08:47] to high school with other females know that they can destroy you to the core through lies

[00:08:52] and manipulation.

[00:08:54] In a letter to the Globe and Mail, Reena's father would write, quote,

[00:08:58] I still remember the psychological scars Reena's school bullies left on her.

[00:09:03] She would cry, knowing that her friends weren't really her friends.

[00:09:07] She would plead to stay home from school altogether, but herself a steam had been so wounded

[00:09:13] that her family's love wasn't enough.

[00:09:16] She craved acceptance by her, quote, friends and needed it so badly that despite the risks

[00:09:22] she carried on all the way to that fateful day at Craigflower Bridge in Saunich, which

[00:09:29] brings us to November 14th 1997.

[00:09:33] Reena was going to be spending the night at her family home.

[00:09:36] She was at her parents' house when she received a phone call inviting her to a social gathering.

[00:09:42] It was Friday night and this was something that happened most Fridays except Reena wasn't

[00:09:47] typically invited to participate.

[00:09:50] She was excited just to be included so off she went to the field behind Shoreline High

[00:09:55] School where Reena had previously attended.

[00:09:59] A large group of around 50 or 60 teens were all there socializing, they were drinking,

[00:10:05] smoking, having fun, just hanging out.

[00:10:08] She only knew a handful of the teens there but she wanted more than anything to fit in

[00:10:13] and make friends.

[00:10:15] The police would show up due to a noise complaint and the group dispersed, moving the

[00:10:20] party over to the Craigflower Bridge.

[00:10:23] This is where everything would come to a head.

[00:10:27] Suddenly a group of 17-age girls and one boy formed a ring around Reena screaming at

[00:10:33] her about the alleged rumors calling her the most vicious names.

[00:10:38] According to one of the girls, Reena had recently stolen her notebook which had the phone numbers

[00:10:43] of several boys in the area and she told them lies about this girl including that she

[00:10:48] had aides, her eyebrows were fake and she was ugly just a bunch of silly stuff.

[00:10:53] This girl was furious when she found out that Reena had done this and she hatched this

[00:10:58] plan with her other friends to make Reena pay for what she did.

[00:11:02] One of the girls put a burning cigarette out on Reena's forehead as the others began

[00:11:07] to repeatedly punch and kick her.

[00:11:10] Once this fight broke out many of the teens at the gathering decided to take off not wanting

[00:11:15] to get into any kind of trouble while others moved closer so that they could watch the

[00:11:20] attack.

[00:11:22] No one stepped in to put a stop to the fight or to help Reena.

[00:11:27] According to one teen who stayed, Reena was crying out that she was sorry but the attacks

[00:11:32] continued.

[00:11:34] She laid on the ground bloody and battered but eventually she was allowed to get up

[00:11:39] and she tried to get away.

[00:11:41] She was limping away across the bridge towards her home where she could get help but two

[00:11:46] of the teenagers, 15-year-old Kelly Allard and 16-year-old Warren Glowatsky weren't going

[00:11:53] to let her get away so easy.

[00:11:55] They followed her and grabbed her before she could escape.

[00:11:59] Reena was further punched and kicked.

[00:12:02] Her head was smashed against a tree and then she was dragged towards the water under

[00:12:07] the bridge.

[00:12:08] To ensure that she would not get up again, her head was held underwater until she stopped

[00:12:14] moving.

[00:12:15] She would not make it home to her parents that night.

[00:12:18] Instead she laid under the bridge out of sight to anyone who happened to pass by.

[00:12:24] While Suman and Monjit Virk worried about where their daughter was, eventually reporting

[00:12:29] her missing to the police, students at Shoreline High School began to talk.

[00:12:34] Many who witnessed the group attack had seen Reena get up and leave so they assumed things

[00:12:39] had ended there.

[00:12:41] But it wasn't long before whispers about how Reena Virk was no longer alive began to make

[00:12:47] their way through the halls.

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[00:16:53] Allegedly a pact was made between the 17 age girls and one boy who had beat her.

[00:17:00] No one was to talk about what had happened that night because they could all be implicated

[00:17:05] in her death.

[00:17:07] Meanwhile, Reena's parents pleaded with the police to take their daughters' disappearance

[00:17:11] seriously.

[00:17:13] Because she was a 14 year old girl who had a history of rebellion and troubling behavior,

[00:17:19] the police believed it was very likely she had run away and she would eventually turn

[00:17:24] back up.

[00:17:25] Two Russian sisters who happened to live at the same foster home as Reena decided to call

[00:17:30] in a tip to the police when they heard the rumors that she was most likely dead.

[00:17:36] It would take 8 days for the police to locate Reena.

[00:17:40] Her battered half nude body was found in the water under the bridge.

[00:17:45] While many of the young teens were already aware of Reena's fate, her parents were learning

[00:17:50] about the violence inflicted upon her for the very first time and they were devastated.

[00:17:57] What these teenagers did to this girl?

[00:17:59] It was unimaginable.

[00:18:01] An autopsy would reveal that Reena had sustained multiple blows to her abdomen.

[00:18:06] She had extensive injuries to her face and her head.

[00:18:10] She even had a bruise in the shape of a sneaker which was found on the back of her brain.

[00:18:16] Ultimately, Reena had died from being drowned.

[00:18:20] Pebbles were found in her lungs indicating that she was still alive when her head was pushed

[00:18:25] into the water.

[00:18:26] It was noted that if she had not been drowned, she likely would have died from the other

[00:18:31] extensive injuries to her body.

[00:18:34] Her body had sustained injuries that were as severe as if she had been in a car accident.

[00:18:39] It was shocking and the community they were not prepared to learn who amongst them

[00:18:44] had done something so evil.

[00:18:47] Thankfully, teenagers talk and this horrific secret that they had tried so desperately

[00:18:52] to keep quiet, it came to light.

[00:18:55] The police pretty quickly learned about the fight that had broken out at the gathering

[00:18:59] under the bridge.

[00:19:01] There were a ton of witnesses who saw firsthand the brutal beatdown of Reena's work.

[00:19:07] The group of seven females and one boy were quickly identified and the story of how two

[00:19:12] of these teens continued on to follow and kill Reena was revealed.

[00:19:18] It was 15-year-old Kelly Allard and 16-year-old Warren Glowatsky who had dealt the final blows.

[00:19:25] What would cause this group to so violently turn on a girl that they hardly knew?

[00:19:30] Why would these two teens, Kelly and Warren, follow Reena to ensure that she was dead?

[00:19:36] It all started just a few months before the gathering under the bridge.

[00:19:40] Kelly, who came from a middle class, loving and stable family, had found a close relationship

[00:19:46] in a troubled teen girl who has not been identified due to her age at the time.

[00:19:52] Together they were a dangerous pair.

[00:19:54] They were mean girls who wanted to grow up someday to be career criminals, join the mob

[00:19:59] even.

[00:20:00] They would listen to really violent music, draw sketches of cops being killed by gangsters,

[00:20:06] they had a twisted morbid perception of the world.

[00:20:10] Reena would have given anything to be included in that world.

[00:20:14] She so desperately wanted to fit in with this kind of group, no matter how toxic it was.

[00:20:20] Reena was insecure, she was jealous and she was vulnerable, which is why she allegedly

[00:20:27] took the unidentified teen's notebook and called the boys in it to spread rumors about

[00:20:32] this girl.

[00:20:33] Now this teen, along with her best friend Kelly, they plotted revenge against Reena, deciding

[00:20:38] that they would beat her up at the Friday night group gathering.

[00:20:42] Most of the other teens who were in attendance had no idea about this revenge plot.

[00:20:48] They were just there to hang out and have some fun.

[00:20:50] But when the fight finally broke out, six other girls and one boy who didn't even know Reena

[00:20:56] decided to jump in.

[00:20:58] Mob mentality.

[00:21:00] No one stepped in to put a stop to the beating or to help, but ultimately it was Kelly and

[00:21:06] Warren who murdered Reena Vick.

[00:21:09] Shockingly, Warren didn't even know Reena.

[00:21:12] He blindly participated in the beat down.

[00:21:15] Growing up in a broken home, Warren claimed to be a part of the crypts, a street gang based

[00:21:21] out of California.

[00:21:22] His mother was an alcoholic and she really wasn't a part of his life.

[00:21:26] She wasn't in the picture.

[00:21:28] She hardly raised him.

[00:21:30] His father had abandoned him to move to the United States with a woman who he met in Vegas.

[00:21:35] And at the time of the murder, he was pretty much all alone.

[00:21:38] He was living with a friend.

[00:21:40] He was an angry teenager who found belonging with the troubled crowd.

[00:21:45] Now at this time in the late 90s and the Victoria BC area, the teenage subculture was heavily

[00:21:51] influenced by LA street gangs.

[00:21:54] It was considered cool and trendy to be a criminal, a gangster, part of the blood or

[00:21:59] crypts, even if they didn't have any real affiliation.

[00:22:03] That's why no one really batted an eye when this mob of teenagers viciously beat this

[00:22:08] one girl.

[00:22:10] When the police interviewed Warren, he turned on Kelly right away, claiming that yeah,

[00:22:15] he had followed Reena and he helped to drag her back underneath the bridge.

[00:22:20] But he alleged that it was Kelly who had held Reena's head under the water to drown

[00:22:24] her.

[00:22:25] Kelly on the other hand denied everything.

[00:22:28] Instead, she said that it was all just a rumor and she was being used as a scapegoat.

[00:22:34] Kelly claimed that Reena's killer was probably her friend, the unidentified teen who had

[00:22:39] her notebook stolen.

[00:22:41] She maintained this position despite the fact that so many other teens who were present

[00:22:46] named her specifically as the one who did it, as well as Warren.

[00:22:51] Even though they were minors at the time of the murder, because of the extreme nature

[00:22:55] of the crime, Kelly and Warren were arrested and charged with aggravated assault and murder.

[00:23:00] The six other girls who had taken part in the group beating forever dubbed the Shoreline

[00:23:05] 6, they would be charged as youths.

[00:23:08] Their identities would be withheld, including the girl who allegedly had her notebook stolen

[00:23:13] by Reena, sparking this entire situation.

[00:23:17] Three of the girls pled guilty to assault causing bodily harm, while the other three fought

[00:23:22] their charges at trial, but they were still found guilty.

[00:23:26] All of them.

[00:23:27] Kelly and Warren's aggravated assault and murder trials could not have gone any more

[00:23:31] different.

[00:23:32] Warren was represented by a public defender because he couldn't afford his own council.

[00:23:38] He took full responsibility for his role in Reena's murder.

[00:23:43] He confessed to pretty much everything, and he was found guilty of second degree murder.

[00:23:47] He received a life sentence which, if you've listened to my podcast for any length of time,

[00:23:53] you know is not actually a life sentence at all in Canada.

[00:23:57] But the positive here is that while he was behind bars, he participated in a restorative

[00:24:02] justice program which has a goal of reconciling offenders and victims.

[00:24:07] It's all about healing.

[00:24:09] It was during one of these sessions, he was actually able to meet Reena's parents and

[00:24:14] apologize to them for what he did right to their faces.

[00:24:18] He acknowledged to them what he had done.

[00:24:21] He admitted that he was wrong, and then he even exchanged hugs with both her mother and

[00:24:26] her father.

[00:24:27] I'm not sure that I could be so forgiving, but again, I have never had to deal with the

[00:24:32] grief of losing a child.

[00:24:34] Reena's mother would later say, quote,

[00:24:37] I think the most important reason why we forgiven Warren is so we can just put this

[00:24:42] whole matter aside, and for our own healing and sense of wholeness.

[00:24:47] Reena's parents supported his request for full parole which he received in 2010.

[00:24:53] As for Kelly, it would take three trials and many years to finally convict her for her

[00:24:58] actions.

[00:25:00] In March of 2000 she went to trial for the first time, and she pleaded not guilty.

[00:25:06] This pretty young girl showed up to court all buttoned up with her well-established family

[00:25:11] standing behind her fully supporting her.

[00:25:15] They hired the best lawyer that money could buy who argued that there was no physical evidence

[00:25:20] to tie Kelly to Reena's murder, which was true.

[00:25:24] The prosecution didn't have any fingerprints or any DNA.

[00:25:28] However, they did have a mountain of witnesses who claimed that they saw Kelly viciously beating

[00:25:34] Reena, including Warren who claimed that he was standing there while Kelly forced Reena's

[00:25:40] head under the water.

[00:25:42] According to Kelly and her lawyers, these were just simply rumors and they were not to

[00:25:47] be believed.

[00:25:48] Still, the jury found her guilty and she was convicted of second-degree murder.

[00:25:53] However, that ruling was short-lived.

[00:25:56] She successfully appealed the conviction on the grounds that she had been improperly questioned

[00:26:02] and didn't receive a fair trial.

[00:26:05] While waiting for a new trial, she was released from prison, and this is when she assaulted

[00:26:10] a 58-year-old woman in a park.

[00:26:13] With this new charge of assault, she was sent back to prison to wait for her second trial.

[00:26:18] Four years later, her second trial would begin.

[00:26:21] Again, she denied any wrongdoing, and she claimed that she was just being used as a scapegope.

[00:26:28] According to Kelly, it was others in the group who had killed Reena.

[00:26:32] A mistrial was declared due to the jury being deadlocked.

[00:26:35] Unfortunately for Reena's family who have already had to deal with all of these other

[00:26:40] trials, there would need to be a third for Kelly.

[00:26:44] This time in April of 2005, Kelly was reconvicted of murder and sentenced to life with no eligibility

[00:26:51] for parole for seven years.

[00:26:53] And as I said, life in Canada isn't life at all.

[00:26:57] She appealed and the conviction was overturned.

[00:27:00] But this time, the Supreme Court of Canada stepped in and reinstated the conviction and

[00:27:05] the sentence.

[00:27:06] During her time in prison, Kelly was anything but well-mannered, and she received a dozen

[00:27:12] of infractions, including attempting to make shives out of toothbrushes.

[00:27:18] She was addicted to drugs, and behind bars she became pen pals with a 41-year-old former

[00:27:23] felon, who she was allowed to have conjugal visits with, which in my opinion should

[00:27:29] never be a thing, especially for a person convicted of murder.

[00:27:34] She became pregnant, surprised, and she had her first baby, a son, behind bars.

[00:27:40] During all three of her trials and the majority of her prison sentence, Kelly continued to

[00:27:45] deny her involvement in Reena's murder.

[00:27:48] However, she had a change of heart when it was time for her parole hearing.

[00:27:53] This time she admitted that she had participated in some of the beating, and she was there

[00:27:59] down by the water with Reena, but she wasn't trying to drown her.

[00:28:03] She simply wanted to splash some water on Reena's face to see if maybe she could get

[00:28:08] her to regain consciousness.

[00:28:11] Kelly claimed that she had changed since the birth of her son.

[00:28:15] Kelly would change her name to Carrie Sim, and she would go on to have a second baby

[00:28:19] behind bars as a result of this conjugal visit with the boyfriend.

[00:28:24] While she appealed for a full parole, she was denied.

[00:28:28] But she has been granted day parole as part of a program to eventually reintegrate her

[00:28:33] back into the community.

[00:28:35] In 2016, a risk assessment found that Kelly, she has a moderate-to-high moderate risk

[00:28:41] of future violence, so thankfully she hasn't been released back into the public just yet.

[00:28:47] As for Reena's parents, over the years since their daughter was so carelessly taken from

[00:28:52] them by a group of violent teens, they have turned their trauma and pain into the driving

[00:28:57] force behind their anti-bullying campaigns.

[00:29:01] They pushed for the government to crack down on teen violence and bullying in schools.

[00:29:06] They've toured around different schools, sharing the tragic story of what happened to

[00:29:11] their daughter at the hands of her peers.

[00:29:14] Reena's mother, Sumon, would pass away due to a choking accident that happened while

[00:29:19] she was dining at a local restaurant.

[00:29:22] She was only 58 years old.

[00:29:25] But her message to greet others with an open hand instead of the fist is just as relevant

[00:29:31] then as it is today.

[00:29:33] Reena's memory can be honored in acknowledging the mistakes, the wrong-doings and the negligence

[00:29:39] of the past, and by creating change through simple actions every day of your life.

[00:29:44] There is just as much bullying in schools today as there was back then in the 90s.

[00:29:49] Those are a little bit different now with the internet and social media, but the ramifications

[00:29:54] of what this does to children and teens, they're just as serious.

[00:29:59] No one can solve the bullying problem by themselves, but you can help by teaching your children

[00:30:04] to be kind, empathetic, and individual who thinks for themselves and stands up when

[00:30:10] they see something wrong.

[00:30:12] If someone, anyone, would have stood up and helped Reena, maybe tried to get help and

[00:30:17] called 911, she'd probably still be a little bit more than a child.

[00:30:19] But in my life today, having just turned 41 years old.

[00:30:24] Collectively as a society, we need to do better.

[00:30:28] That's it for me tonight.

[00:30:30] If you want to reach out, you can find me on Facebook at serialnapper.

[00:30:34] I also have a true crime discussion group, it's called serial society and I'll have a link

[00:30:38] in my show notes.

[00:30:39] I'd love to chat with you about this case and all of the other cases plus more.

[00:30:43] You can find my audio on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:30:48] I post all of my episodes in video format over on YouTube, so go check it out.

[00:30:52] And if you're watching on YouTube, I'd love if you can give me a thumbs up and subscribe.

[00:30:56] Every little bit helps.

[00:30:58] I'm over on X, formerly known as Twitter at serial underscore napper and I also post things

[00:31:03] on TikTok, serial napper nick and that's all one word.

[00:31:07] Until next time, sweet dreams, stay kind, especially in the comments.

[00:31:14] Bye.