One of the first things I noticed when I moved to Tokyo was the smiling faces of J-Pop idols posted everywhere - large billboards, moving trucks, subway cars. Japan has the second largest music market in the world, mostly due to the rising popularity of J-Pop, with millions of fans in Japan and all around the world.
One man, known as Johnny Kitagawa, considered the grandfather of J-pop, is responsible for creating idols out of hundreds of young boys who dreamed of being famous. But few know the dark secrets this man, his company and the Japanese media have kept hidden for decades. Johnny Kitagawa allegedly abused hundreds of pre-teen and teen boys who wanted nothing more than to become a J-Pop star. The stories of sexual abuse were kept quiet by many, due to greed, shame, a culture that has denied that males can be raped and the making of a legend out of a monster.
Only in his death has the truth of Johnny Kitagawa and his company “Johnny & Associates” finally come to light.
So dim the lights, put your phone down and listen to the story of how one of Japan’s most beloved and celebrated predators was enabled to abuse hundreds of boys for almost 60 years, while the media and law enforcement looked the other way.
Sources:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j6ho7
https://starto.fandom.com/wiki/Junior
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2023/05/18/commentary/japan-commentary/johnnys-media/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-64837855
https://web.archive.org/web/20130614000713/http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2005/aug/21/popandrock3
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68624670
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[00:00:53] Hey everyone, my name is Nikki Young and this is Serial Napper, the true crime podcast for naps.
[00:01:18] I'm back with another true crime story to lull you to sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares.
[00:01:23] One of the first things I noticed when I moved to Tokyo was the smiling faces of J-pop idols posted absolutely everywhere.
[00:01:31] Large billboards, moving trucks, subway cars.
[00:01:35] Japan has the second largest music market in the world.
[00:01:39] Mostly due to the rising popularity of J-pop with millions of fans in Japan and all around the world.
[00:01:47] One man known as Johnny Kitagawa, considered to be the grandfather of J-pop, is
[00:01:52] responsible for creating idols out of hundreds of young boys who dreamed of being famous.
[00:01:58] But few know the dark secrets this man, his company, and the Japanese media have kept hidden for decades.
[00:02:06] Johnny Kitagawa allegedly abused hundreds of preteen and teen boys who wanted nothing more than to become a J-pop star.
[00:02:15] The stories of sexual abuse were kept quiet by many due to greed,
[00:02:20] shame, and a culture that has denied that males can be raped as well as the making of a legend out of a monster.
[00:02:27] Only in his death has the truth of Johnny Kitagawa and his company, Johnny and Associates,
[00:02:33] finally come to light.
[00:02:35] So dim the lights, put your phone down, and listen to the story of how one of Japan's most beloved and celebrated
[00:02:42] predators was enabled to abuse hundreds of boys for almost 60 years
[00:02:49] while the media and law enforcement looked the other way.
[00:02:52] So let's jump right in.
[00:02:54] The supposed grandfather of J-pop, Johnny Hiromu Kitagawa, was actually born in Los Angeles, California
[00:03:02] in 1931.
[00:03:04] However, when he was just two years old, his family decided to return to their native country of Japan to live.
[00:03:11] His father was a Buddhist priest and his mother a homemaker.
[00:03:15] He grew up learning English from his parents who were fluent in both languages,
[00:03:20] which gave him a huge leg up when he was looking for employment post-war.
[00:03:25] He graduated from Sophia University,
[00:03:28] earning a bachelor's degree in international studies.
[00:03:31] But he still wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life. In the early 50s,
[00:03:36] he found a job working at the United States Embassy located in Tokyo. While working here,
[00:03:42] he took his lunch break at Yoyogi Park as many people do and he encountered a group of young boys who were playing baseball.
[00:03:51] And suddenly he had this brilliant idea.
[00:03:54] He thought that they had the look, the it factor, and he wanted to help form them into a boy band.
[00:04:01] Which he would call the Johnnies, as if he couldn't be any more narcissistic.
[00:04:06] There's another rumor that this didn't go down that way at all.
[00:04:10] That he had actually approached the group of boys and began to chat with them,
[00:04:14] learning that they were signed with a music group already,
[00:04:18] signed with a different management company.
[00:04:21] And then he just decided to start his own talent agency right then and there and to poach them.
[00:04:26] Either way, this group of boys agreed and their first performance would be at the Western Carnival,
[00:04:32] a week-long music festival held at the Nichigeki Theater.
[00:04:36] They were said to be a huge hit, much different than the other acts at the festival at the time.
[00:04:42] The Johnnies had this youthful, innocent image,
[00:04:46] bellowing out ballads while combining them with slick dance moves.
[00:04:51] The crowd went wild, and Johnny Kitagawa knew immediately that he had a money-making idea.
[00:04:58] In turn, he created his talent agency, Johnny & Associates,
[00:05:02] renting office space at the already massive multimedia management company Watanabe Productions.
[00:05:09] What set him apart from other agencies was that he focused specifically on creating idols out of young boys and men.
[00:05:17] In 1968, he launched a new boy band called Four Leaves, which was very successful and highly marketable.
[00:05:25] A money-making machine, if you will.
[00:05:27] Four Leaves, a group of teen boys, created the mold for which all future Johnny & Associates acts would look.
[00:05:35] They were all young, handsome, and able to dance and sing at the same time without any instruments on stage with them.
[00:05:42] The J-pop movement was growing quickly in popularity,
[00:05:47] and Kitagawa, he was basically spearheading the whole thing.
[00:05:51] Then, in 1988, one of the Four Leaves singer, a man named Kita Koji,
[00:05:56] came forward with horrifying allegations against the man who had made him famous.
[00:06:01] He published a 12-volume open letter titled,
[00:06:05] Dear Hikaru,
[00:06:07] Hikaru being one of the most popular acts signed to Johnny & Associates at the time.
[00:06:12] It was a warning to them, containing allegations that he had been sexually assaulted for many years by Johnny Kitagawa,
[00:06:20] with promises of being made famous in exchange for sexual favors.
[00:06:25] The letter was shocking, damning, and it should have put an end to it all,
[00:06:30] but it mostly went ignored.
[00:06:33] Willfully, by both the media who benefited from Johnny's idols,
[00:06:38] and law enforcement, who didn't acknowledge that a crime was even committed.
[00:06:43] So, Johnny Kitagawa carried on, business as usual.
[00:06:47] He continued to build his roster of young boys who would be mentored and then developed into pop idols,
[00:06:54] some as young as just 10 years old.
[00:06:57] The younger, newer recruits were called Johnny's Juniors.
[00:07:01] The juniors were basically idols in training, mentored by none other than Johnny Kitagawa himself to learn how to sing, dance, and act.
[00:07:11] They were typically used as backup dancers for the more established famous idol groups,
[00:07:16] kind of like a soft launch to the public to see how they reacted to their talents.
[00:07:22] Once a junior became popular enough,
[00:07:25] they would become one of Johnny's idols and then given an entire public relations team to take them to the very top.
[00:07:32] The goal of every junior was to become a Johnny,
[00:07:36] and many of their parents would do anything to ensure that this would happen.
[00:07:41] There would be auditions held all over the country where young boys would perform for Johnny Kitagawa
[00:07:47] in hopes of standing out amongst the others.
[00:07:51] Some young hopefuls would send their resumes directly to Johnny and Associates with the hopes of getting a call back.
[00:07:58] If they were selected, they would then get to be interviewed by Johnny who decided if their fate was to be an idol.
[00:08:05] Once chosen, these boys would need to leave their parents behind and they were moved into what was called the dormitory,
[00:08:12] which was on the fifth floor of Johnny's house.
[00:08:15] Away from other adults who might be tempted to step in and put a stop to the abuse,
[00:08:21] Johnny would groom these young men,
[00:08:23] holding the promise of fame over their heads.
[00:08:27] Inside the dormitory, there were rows of beds and the boys would sleep next to each other.
[00:08:33] Johnny would walk into the dormitory and choose who his next victim would be that night.
[00:08:38] The other boys would have to listen as their fellow aspiring idols were being abused right next to them.
[00:08:45] Many pretended to be asleep, hoping that they wouldn't be next.
[00:08:50] Johnny Kitagawa was the only adult allowed in the dormitory,
[00:08:54] allowing him complete unsupervised access to these young boys who were away from home for the first time.
[00:09:01] Now I think it's a bit obvious, but I do want to add a trigger alert here because I'm about to talk about the
[00:09:07] experience of one of Johnny's victims who would later come forward to talk about what happened to him.
[00:09:13] He has been referred to as Hayashi in the media in order to protect his identity,
[00:09:18] and it will become clear soon why these victims are afraid still to this day to talk about what happened to them
[00:09:25] at the hands of Johnny Kitagawa.
[00:09:28] Hayashi was just 15 years old when he decided to send his resume to Johnny and associates.
[00:09:34] He was one of the lucky ones who got a call back
[00:09:37] and he was sent an invite to come to the office and interview with Johnny Kitagawa.
[00:09:43] His first impression of Kitagawa was that he was kind and considerate.
[00:09:48] Kitagawa was a professional groomer. He had his routine down to a science.
[00:09:54] He poised himself as a loving, gentle old man who simply wanted to help these boys to be their very best.
[00:10:02] Hayashi was invited to come for a lesson where he would learn to sing and dance and basically to appeal to a female audience,
[00:10:10] which in and of itself is kind of creepy when we're talking about young teens and young prepubescent.
[00:10:17] After the lesson, he was also invited to stay the night at the dormitory on the fifth floor of Kitagawa's house.
[00:10:23] When he arrived, Hayashi was told that he should go have a bath,
[00:10:28] which he did in a bathroom that had a TV and video games inside of it. The perfect setup to appeal to young boys.
[00:10:36] Johnny had followed Hayashi into the bathroom and he began to fill up the tub with water.
[00:10:42] Initially, Hayashi believed that Johnny was just being kind and helpful, but things quickly took a sinister turn.
[00:10:50] Johnny Kitagawa began to help Hayashi to undress, starting with his sweater and then moving on to his pants.
[00:10:57] When Hayashi insisted that he could do it himself,
[00:11:00] Johnny Kitagawa said nothing. He was silent while he continued to undress the boy.
[00:11:07] Once he was fully undressed,
[00:11:09] he ushered him into the bath and then he began to wash him, wash his body and his hair just like he was a doll.
[00:11:18] Hayashi was very uncomfortable, but he was too afraid to object so he just sat there and he stayed quiet as he was washed.
[00:11:26] After the bath, Kitagawa towel dried him and then sent him on his way.
[00:11:31] Hayashi recalled walking out of the bathroom back into the dormitory
[00:11:35] and then having the other boys look at him like they knew what had just happened because it had happened to them too.
[00:11:43] This was clearly a routine.
[00:11:46] The boys would tell him that his dreams had been shattered, but that he would have to put up with it if he wanted to succeed.
[00:11:53] Later that night when it was time to sleep,
[00:11:56] Johnny Kitagawa told him to get into bed because he must be tired.
[00:12:01] Then he massaged him the entire night.
[00:12:04] This was only the beginning of the abuse that Hayashi would suffer at the dormitory,
[00:12:10] believing that he needed to endure it in order to be famous.
[00:12:14] Kitagawa was the one who decided which of them would get booked for big gigs and
[00:12:19] only the boys who complied with his demands were selected.
[00:12:24] So while it was common knowledge amongst the boys who visited the dormitory,
[00:12:28] it was also an accepted fact that this was happening.
[00:12:33] Many of the victims felt like this was the only way they would ever see the success that they had dreamed of.
[00:12:39] And it's alleged that their parents even encouraged them to just go along with the abuse.
[00:12:45] To be selected as the next big idol by Johnny Kitagawa was quite literally life-changing for the entire family.
[00:12:53] So despite the allegations from former Johnnies juniors,
[00:12:57] parents continued to hand their children over to this predator.
[00:13:02] The mainstream media didn't seem to want to publish any of the allegations that Johnny Kitagawa's alleged victims were making.
[00:13:10] In truth, they had this twisted relationship with his talent agency.
[00:13:15] In Japan, these idols are pretty much integrated into every aspect of daily life.
[00:13:22] They are quite literally everywhere you turn. They cover the subway stations,
[00:13:26] they're on all of the daily television programs,
[00:13:29] they're in every marketing campaign that you'll see, every advertisement.
[00:13:33] Their music and faces are put on these buses and trucks that drive around the city blaring their songs,
[00:13:40] promoting their next release.
[00:13:42] There are stores littered throughout Tokyo that only sell photos and merchandise with these idols' faces.
[00:13:50] And there's always lineups to get in.
[00:13:52] Huge crowds of young ladies gather at the airports
[00:13:56] just for a potential sneak peek of their favorite idols getting off of these flights. In North America,
[00:14:02] we had that boy band boom in the 90s.
[00:14:05] But in Japan, the hysteria over these idols is basically amplified by 100,
[00:14:11] and they've never grown out of it.
[00:14:14] It's time for a quick break and a word from tonight's sponsors. Hang on, I'll be back before you know it.
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[00:16:15] Now back to our story.
[00:16:18] There is a lot of money to be made in J-pop, and the media is intertwined with these financial deals,
[00:16:24] so they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot.
[00:16:27] Johnny Kirigawa used this relationship to control the narrative.
[00:16:32] He was a legend, revered as a god by some, and you simply didn't want to mess with him.
[00:16:38] Still, some of his victims were determined to tell their truth. In 1996,
[00:16:43] Hiromata Jr. was one of Johnny's juniors when he was a young boy,
[00:16:47] and he decided to publish a book called All About Johnnies.
[00:16:51] In the book, he spoke of the dormitory and the routine of having the juniors be washed by Johnny Kirigawa.
[00:16:58] Again, these allegations basically went ignored by the media and law enforcement.
[00:17:04] It seemed that no one wanted to hold Johnny Kirigawa accountable.
[00:17:09] Three years later, in 1999, a weekly local newspaper called Shukhan Banshan
[00:17:15] released a series of articles that included interviews with dozens of alleged victims.
[00:17:20] The articles, which dubbed Kirigawa as the monster of the showbiz world,
[00:17:25] included graphic accounts of abuse that they had suffered.
[00:17:29] These men who were young boys when the abuse occurred all had similar stories about being bathed,
[00:17:36] massaged, forced to perform and receive oral sex, and full-on penetration.
[00:17:42] One victim recalled how Kirigawa sexually abused him at his own house,
[00:17:47] and how his parents had moved his futon into the boy's room so that they could sleep next to one another.
[00:17:53] It's sickening, and in my opinion, it's a clear indication that the parents knew what was happening and even encouraged it,
[00:18:01] because they were hopeful that he would make their child a star.
[00:18:06] In total, there were 10 accusations of sexual abuse by Johnny Kirigawa published in this magazine,
[00:18:13] and in turn, Kirigawa sued them for libel, claiming that the boys were all lying.
[00:18:20] The courts determined that 9 out of 10 of the claims published were true,
[00:18:25] the only defense in a defamation case. But one could not be proven, so
[00:18:30] Kirigawa won 8.8 million yen, which is around 80,000 US dollars.
[00:18:37] The fine would later be lowered to 1.2 million yen because the courts decided that the sexual abuse claims weren't defamatory,
[00:18:45] but the allegations that Kirigawa had given the young boys alcohol and cigarettes
[00:18:50] were. Although most of the allegations of sexual abuse were proven to be true,
[00:18:56] there were no criminal charges brought forward by the police.
[00:18:59] The reasons for this are just as disturbing.
[00:19:03] Firstly, the age of consent in Japan at the time was just 13 years old.
[00:19:08] If Kirigawa was able to convince people that he was in a consensual sexual relationship with these young boys,
[00:19:16] then there was no crime committed and some of them did kind of feel like maybe they were in this relationship with him.
[00:19:22] They thought it was
[00:19:23] mutual. Thankfully, the age of consent in Japan shifted from 13 to 16 in 2019,
[00:19:30] after national public outrage for an increase in rape acquittals.
[00:19:35] The other issue here is that at the time this case went to trial, the law did not recognize men as victims of rape.
[00:19:43] According to the law in Japan, only a woman could be raped. It just wasn't possible for a man to be raped.
[00:19:50] This law wouldn't be changed until 2017,
[00:19:53] but to this day, many sexual assaults go unreported in Japan.
[00:19:58] As some of you may know, I lived in Tokyo for four years,
[00:20:01] and there's very much a culture of just not causing any sort of disruption, going with the flow,
[00:20:08] putting on a smile even if you're dying inside.
[00:20:11] It's one of the toxic things about life in Japan,
[00:20:15] and it's a big reason why they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
[00:20:19] They work themselves to death, putting up with so much in their lives,
[00:20:24] while not wanting to disrupt the social order of things.
[00:20:28] It's insane.
[00:20:29] Oftentimes, victims are the ones who feel like they're at fault, and this sentiment is actually shared by the general public,
[00:20:37] which is one reason why Johnny Kitagawa was able to get away with abusing these boys for so long, for literally decades.
[00:20:45] While these stories were making headlines all around the world, again, the Japanese media stayed quiet.
[00:20:53] Beyond legal ramifications, there weren't any negative implications to his career either.
[00:20:59] Kitagawa continued to serve as president of Johnny and Associates for 16 more years, until the day he died.
[00:21:06] He continued to put together J-pop boy bands, including a group called Heisei 7,
[00:21:12] which broke a record as the youngest male group ever to top the Japanese music charts,
[00:21:17] with an average age of just 14.8 years old.
[00:21:21] At the height of its success, Johnny and Associates generated 2.9 billion yen in annual profits, around 25 million USD annually.
[00:21:31] And then, in July of 2019,
[00:21:34] Johnny Kitagawa died at the age of 87 years old from a stroke.
[00:21:38] When his death was announced, there was a public outpouring of grief.
[00:21:43] There was awareness of what he had done, but people were not wanting to talk about it.
[00:21:49] To many, he was a legend, but a mystery.
[00:21:52] While he kept his idols in the spotlight, he also shielded himself away from the cameras as an individual.
[00:21:59] It's actually quite difficult to find any photos or videos of him at all,
[00:22:04] perhaps making it all that much easier to get away with the things that he had done.
[00:22:10] Instead of connecting his face to the horrific crimes he had been accused of,
[00:22:14] his name and reputation for creating idol culture in Japan prevailed.
[00:22:19] There was even a memorial concert held in his honor at the Tokyo Dome,
[00:22:24] which featured many of the young artists that he helped to become a celebrity.
[00:22:29] One has to wonder how many of these idols were victims themselves,
[00:22:33] and how painful it would have been for them to perform for a man who violated them.
[00:22:39] Yet many victims felt like they owed him for their success.
[00:22:44] He had made them famous, but at what cost?
[00:22:48] Kitagawa's niece, Julie Fujishima, took over the company as CEO.
[00:22:53] It was only after Johnny Kitagawa's death that things finally came to a head, and his company, Johnny & Associates,
[00:23:00] as well as the mainstream media in Japan, could no longer ignore the victims and their accusations.
[00:23:08] In March 2023,
[00:23:10] the BBC ran a documentary called Predator, The Secret Scandal of J-Pop.
[00:23:15] I was able to find it on Daily Motion, and I'll have the link in my show notes if you want to check it out.
[00:23:20] It's definitely worth the watch, especially because you can hear the stories
[00:23:25] told by the few victims themselves, the ones that wanted to actually come forward.
[00:23:30] You can hear what they went through in their own words, which I think is really important.
[00:23:35] This is also when more of his alleged victims finally felt comfortable enough to come forward,
[00:23:41] including a young man named Kawan Okamoto.
[00:23:44] He was a former Johnny's Jr.'s member, and he said that he had been abused for four years while under his management.
[00:23:52] In a press conference, he said that during those years,
[00:23:56] he remembered there being between 100 and 200 boys that would stay at the dormitory,
[00:24:02] and at night, when Kirigawa would select one of them to go to bed early,
[00:24:07] everyone else there knew that it was their turn.
[00:24:11] There are still many victims of Kirigawas who just refuse to speak out about what happened to them,
[00:24:17] basically for fear of repercussions.
[00:24:19] There are also many who have no idea that they are actually victims of sexual abuse.
[00:24:25] That's because of how good Kirigawa was at grooming these young boys.
[00:24:30] From the start, he acted like he was a kind, compassionate person who just wanted to help them to reach their goals.
[00:24:38] And as the grooming progressed,
[00:24:40] he made these victims feel like they were special, and if they complied, they were rewarded with commercials,
[00:24:48] ads, concerts, airtime, money.
[00:24:51] It was to the point that some of the boys even fought for his attention,
[00:24:56] wanting him to pick them that night,
[00:24:58] not realizing that they were being exploited by a monster. It was mental warfare.
[00:25:05] Even as adults, many of his victims say that even though what he did was wrong,
[00:25:11] they still like him and even love him.
[00:25:14] They feel like they owe him for their success, and that he treated them with love and affection.
[00:25:20] It's a perfect example of Stockholm syndrome, when victims develop positive feelings towards their abusers.
[00:25:28] With everything now out in the air, Kirigawa's niece, Julie Fujishima,
[00:25:33] she was forced to step down as CEO and finally admit that the claims of her uncle being a predator
[00:25:39] were all true, and that the victims should be compensated for all that they went through.
[00:25:44] She issued an apology, though it was truly far too late for any of that.
[00:25:49] And for the first time ever, in April of 2023, NHK, which is the Japan Broadcasting Corporation,
[00:25:57] they published a piece on the abuse.
[00:26:00] It's absolutely wild that it took them so long to finally address an issue that had been brought to light
[00:26:06] decades prior.
[00:26:08] But NHK was deeply embedded with Johnny and Associates, and it shows.
[00:26:14] In October 2023, Johnny and Associates rebranded itself into two different companies.
[00:26:20] Stardot Entertainment, which is to handle new and existing talent in the agency,
[00:26:26] and Smile Up, a company tasked with processing claims of abuse.
[00:26:31] Smile Up hired Noriyuki Higashiyama, a former Johnny and Associates talent, as CEO.
[00:26:38] Since this company was set up, they've received criticism for how they've handled the processing of victims' claims.
[00:26:45] Since the BBC documentary was released, nearly a thousand men have come forward to say that they were victims of Kirigawa.
[00:26:53] But some of these victims have said that they've been harassed and even received death threats after sharing their stories.
[00:27:01] For one of the victims, after he came forward with his own story, his personal details were leaked online,
[00:27:08] and he faced a wave of backlash from people who called him a liar and quite literally threatened to kill him.
[00:27:15] He couldn't handle the emotional abuse that he was now receiving, and sadly, he decided to end his own life,
[00:27:22] leaving behind his wife and his children.
[00:27:25] His story demonstrates why it has taken this long for all of the abuse allegations to come to light.
[00:27:31] For fear of not being believed, for fear of being blamed and shamed.
[00:27:36] Even Smile Up, the company that is supposed to be making things right,
[00:27:40] released a statement just days after being set up that said,
[00:27:44] We have received information that there are cases in which people who are most likely not victims
[00:27:50] are telling false stories using the testimony of real victims.
[00:27:54] The rate of people falsely reporting allegations of rape and sexual abuse is incredibly low.
[00:28:00] The vast majority of victims are telling the truth.
[00:28:03] The rate in a country where there is very little support for victims and very real negative consequences for reporting it at all
[00:28:10] is even lower.
[00:28:12] So yeah, believe all victims.
[00:28:15] Even if you think the accused is a good person, even if they've never hurt you personally,
[00:28:20] even if the victim held on to this secret for years.
[00:28:24] Not all victims look the same or act the same way, and many have in some way worked with or supported their perpetrators afterward.
[00:28:32] But it does not make them any less of a victim. It means that they were groomed, manipulated, and taken advantage of.
[00:28:40] Which is exactly how abuse happens in the first place.
[00:28:44] We all know to watch out for people who outwardly appear to be dangerous,
[00:28:48] but oftentimes it's those with a warm smile and an outreached hand that you need to be cautious of.
[00:28:56] Grooming is a slow process
[00:28:58] of being nice, being kind, making the person feel special and valued.
[00:29:04] They never reveal their hand right away.
[00:29:08] These boys were only able to be abused because their perpetrator positioned himself as a kind and
[00:29:14] caring old man who only wanted the best for their future.
[00:29:17] Instead, Johnny Kitagawa will go down in history as one of Japan's most prolific pedophiles,
[00:29:24] known as the J-pop predator.
[00:29:27] That's it for me tonight. If you want to reach out, you can find me on Facebook at Serial Napper.
[00:29:32] I also have a Serial Napper true crime discussion group over on Facebook. It's called Serial Society.
[00:29:37] And I'll also have the link in my show notes.
[00:29:39] I'd love to chat with you about this case, all of the other cases that I cover, plus
[00:29:42] everything else that is going on in true crime.
[00:29:44] You can find my audio on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[00:29:50] I post all of my episodes in video format over on YouTube, so go check it out.
[00:29:54] And if you're watching on YouTube, I would just love if you can give me a thumbs up and subscribe. Every little bit helps.
[00:30:00] I'm over on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Serial underscore Napper.
[00:30:05] And I post things on TikTok. Serial Napper Nick, and that's all one word.
[00:30:10] Until next time,
[00:30:12] sweet dreams, stay kind, especially in the comments.
[00:30:17] Bye.

