Connor & Noah Barthe: Nothing Loved is Ever Lost

[00:00:08] Hey everyone, my name is Nikki Young and this is Serial Napper, an international true crime podcast. I'm back with another true crime story to lull you to sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares. Tonight's episode features a case that is quite different than the ones

[00:00:35] that I usually cover. Like many of you, I am a parent, so I have an especially difficult time hearing about the tragic deaths of children. I think of my own two little ones and the

[00:00:48] unspeakable pain that a parent must go through after the loss of their child. My story tonight is one that is particularly tragic. Two little boys were killed, and so many lives were destroyed over the horrific loss of these adorable kids. It's an important story that comes with a

[00:01:08] reminder and a lesson. Never forget to tell your babies how loved they are, and never become complacent, because accidents, they happen all the time. And we only really consider what could have been done differently after it's already too late. It was the summer of 2013 in Campbellton,

[00:01:28] New Brunswick, Canada. Noah and Connor Barthe, who were four and six years old, they had spent the day having a total blast with family friends at a farm. That evening, they had a sleepover at

[00:01:41] their best friend's house, which was located just above an exotic pet store that his father owned. Not all of the animals were kept downstairs in the store. Jean-Claude Savoie owned a 12-foot-long African rock python, which was kept in a glass enclosure in the apartment. Somehow during the

[00:02:01] night, this python escaped through an air duct. The 100-pound snake broke through the ceiling, right above where the little boys were sleeping in the living room. The following morning at around 6 30 a.m., Savoie would walk into the living room to a horrifying scene. The two little boys,

[00:02:21] they had been killed, apparently crushed to death by the python. Their family friends and the community at large were devastated over the loss of these two very loved children, while the python owner was charged with criminal negligence. He would be found not guilty,

[00:02:40] surprising some and relieving others. There are no charges that could ever bring back these two incredible little boys, but there is a lesson here in responsible pet ownership and speaking up when you see that something's wrong. So let's jump right in. Noah and Connor Barth were two of

[00:03:00] the sweetest little boys that you could ever meet. Living their short lives with their mother in Campbellton, New Brunswick, Canada, they made a lasting impression on everyone who was lucky enough to know them. Connor was the older, overprotective brother at just six years old.

[00:03:16] He's been described as wise beyond his years. Known for his huge bear hugs, his dimples, and a smile that was larger than life, he only saw the best in others. He was known to love animals

[00:03:30] of all shapes and sizes, creatures big and small, and he wasn't afraid of handling any of them. Little brother Noah, who was just four years old, has been described as being much quieter and introspective compared to his big brother. He loved playing dress up and making silly faces

[00:03:48] to make others laugh. When he grew up, he wanted to be a professional basketball player, big shoes to fill at just four years old. All this to say, these were two very healthy, happy, and loved

[00:04:03] little boys. Close family friend Leah remembers her time with them fondly. I remember babysitting the boys often, like if Mandy had anything to do outside, whether it was shopping for Christmas presents or birthday presents, without them knowing what it was. Their mother, she was very

[00:04:22] reliable. She cared a great deal about them. These boys would steal anyone's heart with their purity, their kindness, and good manners. It was rare, like I said, for either of them to complain or be in trouble. They were true, honest, respectful little boys. I fell deeply in love

[00:04:44] with the precious one that we had. As Mandy once told me, they love you and you love them. They were the, like I said, the kindest two little boys I'd ever met. They both had very different

[00:04:58] but similar personalities. They both had hearts of gold and wanted to make anyone and everyone smile. For Valentine's Day, they were my Valentines, both of them. They got me the sweetest present

[00:05:11] I'd ever gotten. Mandy took them shopping at the dollar store and they picked out a bunch of stuff they knew I would love. They shared love for their favorite shows like Paw Patrol and a video

[00:05:27] game called Skylanders. It's this little platform and you put the little characters on it and then you play the video game. They loved that game. I wrote a couple Facebook posts on their birthdays

[00:05:41] and I wrote in them, I'm sure you're playing up there with Skylanders because it was one of their favorite games. They loved to snuggle, like snuggle bugs all the time. I would describe

[00:05:54] Connor as like first most a lover. He wrote poems and cards and he was the eldest and he always had like a love interest. He was really humorous and he knew how to make anyone laugh.

[00:06:14] I have so many pictures of him doing goofy stuff. He took his role as the eldest as like a serious role. He loved taking care of others. He loved taking care of his brother Noah and

[00:06:26] and their best friend that lived next door and anyone else he could take care of. Like if he could do something to help you, he was there. Noah was younger and a bit more reserved, timid.

[00:06:41] I remember it taking me a while to gain his trust. He was so intelligent and driven and also had this special sensitive side. Like he loved his little girl which was a little plush

[00:06:56] that I have a copy of somewhere. It's a little like plush on a snowboard with these big eyes and it's pink and purple and white and called it his little girl and he never went anywhere

[00:07:10] without his little girl. I met them as toddlers and like watching them grow into who they were was really, really special. Noah and Connor's mother and father were separated and there was a custody arrangement in place. They were supposed to spend the week with their mom

[00:07:29] and then every other weekend with their dad but it wasn't unusual for plans with their father to kind of fall apart, meaning they would end up spending most weekends with their mom. On the weekend of August 4th, 2013, Noah and Connor were supposed to be staying with their

[00:07:46] dad that weekend but he was away on a holiday. So in a cruel twist of fate, they again stayed with their mom. But the boys had the chance to spend their day doing something that they

[00:07:58] absolutely loved, playing with animals at a local farm. The farm was owned by the father of a man named Jean-Claude Savoie, who I will refer to as JC from here on out.

[00:08:10] JC had a son who was around the same age as Noah, who was four, and because they were practically neighbors, they spent a lot of time together. Lots of playdates and sleepovers, including this

[00:08:22] outing at the farm. The three young boys, they had a blast swimming, enjoying a barbecue, and playing with the farm animals. They were able to play with llamas, goats, and horses.

[00:08:34] They even had a chance to go for a tractor ride with JC. It was a great day. That evening, the fun would continue with a boys sleepover. Noah and Connor would spend the night at JC's

[00:08:48] apartment so that they could have a sleepover with his son like they often did. JC lived right behind Noah and Connor's house, and he was really good friends with their mother, Mandy,

[00:09:00] so the families spent a ton of time together. To JC, Noah and Connor were practically like sons to him. He loved those little boys much like his own. And the three boys, they were over the moon

[00:09:14] excited to be able to finish off their amazing day with this sleepover. The apartment was located directly above an exotic pet shop that was owned by JC, which was called Reptile Ocean. The shop

[00:09:27] was home to many fish, several varieties of snakes and lizards, and there were even a few crocodiles. It was a well-known spot within the city of Campbellton. In past years, local schools would even visit Reptile Ocean for their field trips, and there were group tours where people

[00:09:46] could come in, learn about the animals, and even have the opportunity to touch them and play with them. At one point, Reptile Ocean was listed as a zoo, and they would charge admission, but now it

[00:09:58] was just a pet shop where anyone could come in and look at the animals for free. It was a space that was enjoyed by many reptile lovers in the community, including Noah and Connor, who had even

[00:10:11] previously assisted JC with cleaning out some of the enclosures. JC and his son lived in the apartment right above the store. It was here that he would keep his personal collection of animals,

[00:10:23] not for sale. JC had been obsessed with reptiles since he was a little child, so he had many. The ones in the shop down below were for sale, and the ones that he kept upstairs in his apartment,

[00:10:36] they were his own. That night, he set up the three little boys, including Noah, Connor, and his own son, with a mattress in the living room where they would sleep, as they had

[00:10:46] done many times before. It was around midnight when the boys finally calmed down from the excitement and fell asleep. JC was sleeping in his bedroom in the next room. At some point during the night,

[00:11:00] his son left the mattress in the living room and then snuck into his dad's bed for snuggles, as he was known to do. The apartment was still, but just a few hours later, something else began

[00:11:14] to stir. It wasn't Noah, Connor, JC, or his son, but a 12-foot-long python that weighed over 100 pounds. As a side note, the African rock python is one of the five largest snake species in the

[00:11:31] whole world, so these are massive creatures. This particular snake was housed just a few yards away from where Noah and Connor were sleeping on the mattress in the living room. The way that this

[00:11:42] enclosure has been described is as a tall, large enclosure made of a combination of wood, fiberglass, and epoxy. The top, it had a vent that linked to the ventilation system. However, that ventilation

[00:11:57] pipe in the ceiling directly above the enclosure, it had a cap on it that was not properly secured. This python slithered its way up and into the ventilation shaft, where it proceeded to move through the ceiling. With this heavy snake being around 100 pounds, the ceiling collapsed under its

[00:12:17] weight, and the python fell right on top of where the two little boys were still sleeping. But the commotion wasn't loud enough to wake JC, who was still sleeping in the next room with his

[00:12:28] son. He didn't hear anything or know that anything was wrong until the following morning at around 6 30 a.m., when he went into the living room to check on the boys. When he first walked in,

[00:12:42] the room was dark, and he thought that Noah and Connor were still sleeping because their eyes were closed. Then he noticed that there was a hole in the living room ceiling right above the boys.

[00:12:55] When he turned on the light to investigate, the full horror of what had happened during the night was revealed. Without getting too graphic here because it's not necessary, Noah and Connor had been suffocated by the snake, which was now missing from its enclosure. They had also been

[00:13:12] repeatedly bitten by the snake. It was a horrific scene, and the python, like I said, it was still missing. Knowing how to speak and understand a new language can be an invaluable tool when traveling,

[00:13:30] meeting new friends, or just even to master a new skill. But it's not always simple when you're bogged down by textbooks and structure classes. That's why so many people trust Rosetta Stone.

[00:13:40] Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program available on desktop or as an app. It truly immerses you in the language you want to learn, like Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, and more. You won't just be studying English translations. The Rosetta Stone intuitive process helps you pick

[00:13:56] up a language naturally, first with words, then phrases, then sentences. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com slash rs10. That's

[00:14:13] 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash rs10 today. JC ran to Noah and Connor's mother's house, which was located just behind the apartment building. It was around 6 49 a.m. when Mandy heard her long-time friend

[00:14:35] and neighbor pounding on her door, screaming, oh my god, your two kids are dead. When the paramedics arrived, they checked over the boys, but it was too late. Noah and Connor had been killed by the

[00:14:50] python. Leah recalled the events that day when she learned what had happened to the two boys. I remember my mother waking me up that morning, kind of in a panic, and telling me that the boys

[00:15:04] were dead. And I remember being like, what? And at this time, I had moved back to my mother's, like a 20-minute drive away from Camelton, which was not very far. And I had been seeing the boys

[00:15:20] less. I had been hanging out less since I moved away, and I didn't have a vehicle then. And I opened my phone, and then I had a few voicemails from Mandy. And she told me the exact same thing

[00:15:37] as my mother told me in shaky, panicked words. I could tell she had just gotten up, woken up, and woke up to this. I think everybody woke up to this tragedy. It wasn't just,

[00:15:53] it was kind of shocking. When you wake up, you're a little bit in a daze, you're a little bit out of it. When you first wake up, it seems like a dream. And I remember going straight away. I remember

[00:16:05] making my mother drive me there to her house. And it took me three hours to get under the yellow to go into the house. I had to have Mandy's mother come out and get me because they wouldn't let me

[00:16:21] in. And I remember sitting in the house, and we were like a lot of people. And we were just waiting for them to be done interviewing Mandy so we could talk to her and figure out what was happening and

[00:16:34] what was going on. At that point, nobody really knew what was going on. It was confusing for everybody. And there was this strange air in that house. I remember at some point, there were two

[00:16:53] sets of stairs in the house. And I went to the back set of stairs. And I just said, Mandy, I'm here. I want you to know that I'm here. She asked me to come up. And I remember sitting

[00:17:07] with her for part of the interview with the investigator. And not very long since. Most of it had happened before I got there, but it was a shock. The whole thing was really

[00:17:24] terrible. I have that memory of that day engraved into my mind. It was easily the worst day of my life. Or the second worst day. I think the worst day was their funeral. Mandy was really strong,

[00:17:42] really strong. And she really loved her boys. And she wanted to do them justice. And she stayed strong for them through this. Thankfully, JC was able to find the large snake before it caused

[00:17:56] any more damage or hurt anyone else. One of the first officers on scene was RCMP Constable Eric Maillet. He would later speak of how shocked he was by the snake's sheer power. When JC picked

[00:18:11] the snake up, it quickly coiled around his arm as he attempted to put it back in its enclosure. Once it was returned, Constable Maillet recalled how the python almost immediately appeared to try

[00:18:23] to get out of its enclosure once again. It stood straight up in the air, attempting to reach the opening of the vent in the ceiling again. All this to say, this snake was aggressive. The community

[00:18:37] was horrified to hear that this happened. That these two wonderful little boys with the cutest smiles had been killed by this snake that was owned by someone who was pretty well known by locals as being somewhat of an expert on reptiles. Many residents had visited Reptile Ocean with

[00:18:55] their own children to look at the snakes and other reptiles that JC kept in his shop. There was a lot of shock and horror, but mostly just sadness for Noah and Connor's family and even for JC who was

[00:19:11] a long-time family friend. An autopsy would be conducted on both boys and the results listed asphyxiation as the cause of their deaths. Although both had multiple puncture wounds as a result of the snake biting them, the snake did not attempt to eat them. Although initially,

[00:19:29] many people struggled with the idea that a snake was actually capable of killing two boys while an adult slept in the next room, that is exactly what experts believed had happened. The python was so

[00:19:43] large that it likely coiled around both of the children at once. Still, experts say that this was not typical behavior for an African rock python. These kinds of snakes, they don't recognize their prey visually. Instead, they use scent. Unfortunately, this was just one of several

[00:20:06] factors that contributed to the deaths of Connor and Noah. Before the sleepover where they were killed, they had been playing at that farm with the animals. Animals that are typically used to feed snakes just like this African rock python, like rabbits. The boys likely smelled just like

[00:20:25] the animals that these snakes eat. So the snake, it believed them to be food. While this is really rare, this is not the first time that a human has been killed by this particular breed of snake.

[00:20:37] In 2002, a 10-year-old boy from Durban, South Africa was killed and eaten by a native African rock python. In 1999 in Illinois, another three-year-old little boy was killed by a pet African rock python after it had escaped its enclosure. Now, African rock pythons, they were

[00:20:58] not allowed in New Brunswick in 2013 unless the owner had a specific permit. As it turned out, JC did not have one and many people wanted him to be charged for his role in this snake attack.

[00:21:12] But this situation was even more complicated than that. While JC loved reptiles and had a large collection of them in his shop and his apartment, he didn't purchase that particular python himself. Over a decade before the attack, a New Brunswick wildlife agency had confiscated this snake from

[00:21:34] a neglectful owner and actually gave it to JC to take care of. JC reluctantly agreed to take care of the snake despite the fact that he didn't have the proper paperwork. So though he wasn't

[00:21:48] technically supposed to have this breed of snake, there were government agencies who facilitated his possession of the python and I think that's really important to note. JC would say, quote, I didn't even want the snake but I didn't want to see it euthanized. Although the snake attack

[00:22:06] that killed Connor and Noah appeared to be an accident, a criminal investigation was launched. RCMP spoke with experts, friends and witnesses to find out exactly how this could have happened. While the investigation progressed, Noah and Connor were laid to rest. Nearly a thousand people gathered

[00:22:27] for their funeral service. The boys were so close to one another that they were buried in the same tiny blue casket. During the eulogy it was said, quote, boys oh boys we loved those boys. If people

[00:22:42] all over the world are feeling even a fraction of what we felt over the almost seven years of knowing the boys, inspired, lucky, blessed, hopeful, then our hearts are full. The boys are continuing to

[00:22:55] change people, help people and heal people's hearts including ours. And this couldn't be any more spot on. I think it's really important we say their names and we talk about them and we remember them

[00:23:10] the truly kind boys they were and they had so much empathy and so much love to give and I want to share that with people. They brought things to my life that I couldn't even have

[00:23:24] imagined of having you know for a while I saw them as my own children and we were so close we worked together every day like I took care of them you know when Mandy wasn't able to

[00:23:40] and it was like a great responsibility. I felt proud of that and I feel like they give me strength to start things like they gave me strength to want to do things, to want to better myself, to want to

[00:23:57] be a better person and I think it's important to say their names and to tell other people what happened to them so that it doesn't happen to any other kid out there ever again, any other person

[00:24:11] out there ever again. This is a tragedy that fully could have been prevented and it's unimaginable that the people who lost their lives in this tragedy were these two innocent souls like

[00:24:28] they were so young they had no malice in their body all they knew was love and care. They they were so kind they were like I can't say enough how exemplary they were they were well

[00:24:46] raised. Mandy did an incredible job at raising them. As the months passed and the community continued to try to heal from this, there would be three independent RCMP reviews of the investigation

[00:25:01] into the deaths of Connor and Noah. The first two officers who reviewed the case file suggested that no charges be brought forward against the snake owner JC but the third officer who reviewed the evidence disagreed. He spent more than seven months reviewing witness statements, photos,

[00:25:21] and expert testimony and he believed that there was enough evidence to move forward with charging JC Cebois with criminal negligence. The case would go to trial with an 11-person jury deciding JC's

[00:25:35] fate. There were three specific pieces that the crown had to prove in order for the jury to convict the snake owner of criminal negligence causing death. Number one, they had to prove that JC

[00:25:48] quote as the only adult in his residence that night had a duty to protect the brothers and that he failed that duty. Number two, that he quote showed wanton and reckless disregard for the lives

[00:26:00] and safety of the boys. And number three, that his failure to take quote reasonably appropriate measures to care for or to protect Connor and Noah Barth contributed significantly to their death. The prosecution alleged that several instances of negligence contributed to the snake getting out

[00:26:19] and then ultimately killing the two little boys. It was revealed that JC kept the African rock python in an enclosure that was just yards away from where the boys slept despite knowing that the snake was indeed aggressive. He, along with volunteers who helped to care for the animals,

[00:26:38] they had a difficult time feeding this particular snake because of its threatening behavior. They had to use extreme caution. There was one reptile expert who took to the stand to say that the snake

[00:26:51] was quote vicious and very nervous around people. It wasn't a snake that was used to being handled by humans and extreme caution needed to be utilized. And as it turned out, this was not the

[00:27:05] first time that this snake tried to escape through that ceiling vent the exact same way that it did on the day that it killed Noah and Connor. According to one of the reptile store's volunteers,

[00:27:17] she remembered JC telling her just two weeks prior to the sleepover that he actually caught the snake attempting to escape through the ventilation. He was sitting in his living room

[00:27:28] and he looked up to find the snake stuck in the vent. Because it had just eaten, it was too thick around to actually fit through so it was stuck. On the day that Noah and Connor were killed,

[00:27:40] an autopsy of the snake revealed that it hadn't eaten in over 24 hours meaning that it was much smaller at the time and therefore it was able to fit through the vent this time around. The

[00:27:52] reptile store's volunteer, she placed the cover of the vent back up but she also told JC that he still needed to screw it on so that it was secure which unfortunately he didn't do. Still,

[00:28:06] his lawyer argued that he had no idea the snake could fit through the vent because it had in fact become stuck the last time that it tried to escape. So fixing the ventilation opening, it wasn't really a necessity to him. With this knowledge, the prosecution claimed that JC,

[00:28:24] an expert reptile handler, he should have taken extra precautions to ensure that the python was properly secured in its enclosure. An expert from the Toronto Zoo, he would testify that their snake enclosures have double doors with any openings securely caged so that the snake can't get out.

[00:28:44] He also stated that the enclosure for this particular snake, it was not very conductive to the well-being of the snake. It lacked items that would stimulate the python like rocks and branches meaning the snake was bored. But the jury also heard how a government agency had actually

[00:29:03] placed the snake with JC despite the species being banned in the province of New Brunswick. They heard how it was likely the scent from the farm animals that the children had played with

[00:29:14] earlier on in the day that roused the snake to escape from its enclosure in search of food. They heard how JC loved both Noah and Connor and would have never done anything intentional

[00:29:26] to hurt them. It was a really difficult trial for Noah and Connor's family and for JC, for the jury, and for the Campbellton community. It was just such a tragic case. In the end, Jean-Claude Savoie was found not guilty of criminal negligence causing death.

[00:29:45] As you can imagine, the reactions were very mixed. Some people were really angry, some were relieved. But ultimately, there were no winners here. Nothing could bring back Noah or Connor. I still have a lot of love for him in my heart. He was a great person and he

[00:30:04] will always be a great person. He's kind. He's a kind man. And like I said, he didn't want this to happen to the boys. So I don't know if I would have liked to see him spend time behind bars or

[00:30:18] not. I think maybe. But at the same time, he had this young boy that he had to raise and the circumstances weren't perfect. It was confusing for everybody, I think. Even if he didn't get charged for negligence, that doesn't mean there was no negligence.

[00:30:43] I can clearly see now that there are things that were wrong with the establishment and that were not kept up with. I mean, it wasn't safe. It wasn't safe. And I don't understand how everybody missed that. I don't understand how nobody said, like, hey, this is weird.

[00:31:04] I think he has more than enough pain and guilt to deal with for the rest of his life. I don't think he's getting away from this scot-free. I think a lot of people felt like that.

[00:31:16] I don't think it's like that because he loved those children. I know there isn't a day that he wakes up and doesn't think about them. Because if there is not a day I wake up and I don't think

[00:31:27] about them, there isn't a day he wakes up and doesn't think about them. He knew them before me. He was close to them. Like I said, he treated them like his own. He treated them with a lot of

[00:31:38] respect and care and love. And if JC knew something like this was going to happen, he would have gotten out of there. He would have gotten them out of there. He would have never let

[00:31:52] them sleep there. Like, never. Four years after Noah and Connor were killed by an African rock python, new legislation was introduced in order to regulate exotic animals in the province of New Brunswick. The legislation provided better regulation for the importation, possession,

[00:32:11] sale, and public display of exotic animals like reptiles, fish, spiders, and other wildlife. In response to the new legislation, the former mayor of Campbellton said, it's just nice to know that their death isn't in vain, that the government did take it seriously

[00:32:28] and they acted. We can't go back. We can't press rewind. But we can certainly make it better to go forward. We were torn between having lost children and having lost a community member.

[00:32:42] We were all aware and we were all guilty to know that that place was there. We were bringing our schoolchildren there. Then, all of a sudden, we had to be mad at this gentleman for operating this.

[00:32:55] It's a little of both. Which is absolutely a fair statement. The fault doesn't fall solely onto the shoulders of snake owner JC. His pet shop and former zoo, it was a location frequented

[00:33:09] by many, many that knew he housed such creatures. There were volunteers who saw that maybe a few things had slipped through the cracks, like that vent cap not being secured back on, and people knew that things could become dangerous. The government department that gave him the snake

[00:33:28] would have known that this snake was not legal to have in the province and that JC didn't have the proper paperwork to actually keep the python. There were no sinister intentions by anyone, but unfortunately all of these little things not spoken up about, they turned an innocent sleepover

[00:33:47] into a total tragedy. I love the thought of them being up there and pain-free and just like, to me, the boys are in heaven. To me, they're just surrounded by all the pure things and all

[00:34:04] the people that I miss and all of the good things. That's how I see them and that's how I want to keep seeing them. They're so dear to me. They're so near to my heart. I've spent so long not talking

[00:34:20] about it because it's a traumatizing story. It's a triggering story for a lot of people. It's hard for a lot of people to hear about it. So, for so long I've kept it in and that did me so much bad.

[00:34:37] That wrecked me. I need to say their names. I need people to say their names. I need them to be remembered as the true amazing boys they were. I don't want them to be remembered as just victims

[00:34:55] of this senseless attack. I want them to be forever in people's memory as the two happiest little boys out there. I really hope that everybody can heal from their loss because that's what they would want. That's what they would want. It's so important. If you're owning

[00:35:19] any kind of animals that are a danger to humans or children, you need to enclose them properly, especially at night. It's so important. We need to be more aware of that. These animals, it's

[00:35:35] within them. It's their life instinct. That snake did what he did his whole life and I don't resent him. I don't think he deserved to die either. I think that this whole thing was a tragedy for

[00:35:51] everything involved. I don't want people to be afraid of reptiles. I want people to learn how to handle reptiles properly. I don't think it's bad to own reptiles. I just think everybody should be safe and should know that there is a possibility of a specific animal

[00:36:12] getting out or something. It happens with cats and dogs too, around toddlers and stuff. We see so many animal bites and stuff. It can happen in a second. We just have to be more aware

[00:36:28] that the animals that we own, what their potential is and how we can keep them and us safe. As the years passed, Jean-Claude Savoie moved out of Camelton and over to Montreal to try to start over. Though he was never convicted of anything criminal, this tragedy completely

[00:36:51] destroyed his life as it had others'. If I had to guess, there's likely not a day that goes by that he doesn't wake up thinking about Connor and Noah and what he could have done differently.

[00:37:03] He may not have been punished with jail time, but he lives with the guilt that two little boys he loved very much died while in his care as a result of owning a dangerous animal that was not properly

[00:37:17] secured. As for Connor and Noah's mommy, she loved her boys more than life itself and she expected that they would be safe that night when they went to their best friend's house for a sleepover.

[00:37:30] It is a mother's worst nightmare. Time does not heal everything. No one can ever get over the loss of a child, especially two incredible little boys who loved life and made everyone so happy

[00:37:45] just being around them. The strength that she has shown is incredible. Mandy ended up having two children, a boy and a girl. And from what I know, she's currently doing okay. I don't know if you

[00:38:04] can ever do well after something like that happens to you. I don't think a day goes by that she doesn't think about them or they're not in the back of their mind. And I know for a long time,

[00:38:19] and probably still to this day, she holds a lot of resentment towards herself for letting them go to that sleepover. And I've told her countless times that there was nothing she could have done

[00:38:33] to prevent this. There was nothing she could have done to know this was going to happen and that it's not her fault. We made our own happiness together with whatever we had that day

[00:38:46] and they have and they will always have a special place in my heart. I have their names now tattooed on my knees, and I know I'll never be alone again. They're always with me. You know, I always feel

[00:38:59] them. I always talk to them and I know that they're watching over me. That's it for me tonight. If you want to reach out, you can find me on Facebook at Serial Mapper. I also have a true crime discussion

[00:39:12] group. It's called Serial Society and I'll have the link in my show notes. You can find my audio on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. I post all of my episodes in video

[00:39:23] format over on YouTube, so go check it out. And if you're watching on YouTube, I'd love if you can give me a thumbs up and subscribe. I'm over on X, formerly known as Twitter at Serial underscore

[00:39:36] Napper, and I post things on TikTok. That's Serial Napper Nick and that's all one word. Until next time, sweet dreams, stay kind, especially in the comments. Bye.