Amy Mullis: The Corn Rake Murder

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[00:03:16] Hey everyone, my name is Nikki Young and this is Serial Napper, the number one true

[00:03:40] crime podcast for naps. I'm back with another true crime story to lull you to

[00:03:45] sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares. If he catches me, he will make me disappear.

[00:03:51] That was one of the last things wife and mother of three Amy Mullis allegedly told

[00:03:56] the man she was having an affair with just a few months before she was found lying

[00:04:01] face down with a corn rake sticking out of her back. Amy would die from her injuries

[00:04:06] received in what was initially believed to be a freak farm accident. However, during

[00:04:12] her autopsy, it was revealed that Amy had sustained six stabs to her back when the

[00:04:18] corn rake only had four prongs, meaning the corn rake entered her back more than

[00:04:23] once. Police believed she was murdered and they were looking directly at her husband,

[00:04:29] Todd Mullis as suspect number one. However, Todd had an alibi, the couple's 13 year

[00:04:37] old son. So was Amy Mullis really murdered or was this some kind of freak accident?

[00:04:43] And if she was murdered, was it her husband who did it? He did have an alibi and there

[00:04:48] were other people on the farm that day who may have wanted to hurt Amy. We're

[00:04:53] going to go through it all so let's jump right in. Amy was born on January 23rd,

[00:04:59] 1979 in Ames, Idaho, but she grew up in the area of Eldora. She graduated from

[00:05:05] Eldora New Providence High School in 1997 and then she went on to complete nursing

[00:05:10] school at Kirkwood Community College. When she was just 24 years old, Amy met Todd

[00:05:16] Mullis while she was enjoying an afternoon at the Delaware County Fair. He was three

[00:05:22] years older than her and Todd was already a very accomplished young man who owned his

[00:05:27] own farm. He was passionate about everything to do with farming and he worked really

[00:05:32] hard to successfully operate his own. Amy was an outdoorsy kind of girl who enjoyed

[00:05:38] hunting, fishing, camping, so the couple had a lot in common. It was a bit of a

[00:05:44] whirlwind romance with Amy and Todd marrying in 2004, just a year after their first

[00:05:50] meeting. Because Todd was already well established, Amy moved out onto Todd's farm

[00:05:56] in Earlville, Iowa. While Todd would have preferred for Amy to help out on the farm,

[00:06:02] she already had her own successful career in healthcare so she continued to work as a

[00:06:07] registered nurse. Together they would have three beautiful children and they were a very

[00:06:12] close family unit. The kids would often help out with farm chores on the weekends and after

[00:06:18] school, instilling in them a sense of hard work and dedication. Eventually, Todd was able to

[00:06:23] grow his operations to three farms, which included two hog barns on the main farm where they also

[00:06:30] lived. While on the outside the Mullises appeared to be an idyllic farming family,

[00:06:36] things weren't so great in the marriage between Amy and Todd. In 2013, Amy began an

[00:06:42] affair with a co-worker. Todd would find out and later say that it was devastating. Finding

[00:06:48] out his wife was cheating on him absolutely shattered him, even more so when he learned

[00:06:53] that his eldest son was also aware of the affair. But they were committed to working it

[00:06:59] out. Todd said it only brought he and his son closer while he and Amy entered couples counseling.

[00:07:06] To try to fix the relationship and reconcile, Amy left her job in healthcare and became a

[00:07:12] full-time stay at home mom. It's alleged that this was much more of a demand made upon

[00:07:18] Amy by Todd than it was Amy's decision. She very much loved her nursing job and she felt like she

[00:07:24] was now being controlled by her husband. But life carried on with Amy now spending much of

[00:07:30] her time caring for the children and helping out with the farm duties. By 2018, things were

[00:07:36] once again very tense in the family. That summer, Amy began to have another affair,

[00:07:42] this time with someone close to the farm. She began seeing Jerry Frasher, a married man who

[00:07:47] was responsible for the farm's hogs operation. The affair came to light when Todd received

[00:07:53] a phone bill and he noticed the numerous, extensive phone calls between Amy and Jerry.

[00:07:58] When he confronted her with the phone bill, she denied that anything was going on between

[00:08:03] herself and Jerry. Besides, Jerry was a married man with children. Todd didn't believe

[00:08:09] Amy especially since she had already had one affair before. So he decided to contact Jerry's

[00:08:16] wife about the cheating allegations. Jerry's wife basically brushed him off. She didn't believe

[00:08:22] that her husband Jerry was stepping out on her and she thought that Todd's conspiracy theory

[00:08:27] was nuts. After taking some time to think about it, Todd realized that he may have been

[00:08:33] overreacting so he called back a few days later to retract his allegations and to apologize.

[00:08:40] Jerry's wife wasn't the only person he spoke to regarding his suspicion that Amy was cheating.

[00:08:46] He also questioned Amy's stepmother and one of their mutual friends about what information

[00:08:51] they might have. Neither of them confirmed if Amy was in fact cheating, but they did suggest that

[00:08:58] perhaps the two of them would be better splitting up and getting a divorce because

[00:09:02] clearly there was no longer any trust between them. The friend would later recall the surprising

[00:09:08] response that Todd gave them. He allegedly said, quote, I have worked for this farm since

[00:09:14] I was 11 and I will not give it up. Eventually, Amy would confide in this mutual friend that

[00:09:20] she was in fact having an affair with Jerry fresher and she was thinking about leaving Todd,

[00:09:26] not necessarily for Jerry just to get out of the relationship and to be on her own for a

[00:09:32] while. She had married and had children young and she hadn't had the opportunity to fully

[00:09:37] explore the world or discover who she was because she was busy raising babies and working

[00:09:43] on the farm. At times, she felt almost like a slave having to give up her career she loved

[00:09:50] in order to help her husband with his dreams. Amy secretly began looking for jobs and somewhere

[00:09:56] that she might be able to live on her own once she found the strength to leave her husband.

[00:10:01] She knew that Todd was not going to make this easy for her. He had stated to her on

[00:10:07] more than one occasion that he didn't want a divorce because he would then have to give her

[00:10:12] half of everything he owned including the farm, the farm that he had built from the ground up.

[00:10:19] One of Amy's friends reported that she confided in her about how terrified she was to leave Todd

[00:10:25] because he'd kill her if he ever discovered that she was having an affair or leaving him.

[00:10:31] She was also worried about her children and what they might think of her,

[00:10:35] especially her eldest son who was really close to his father.

[00:10:40] Still, she secretly carried on with her plan to leave Todd, even asking her brother if he might

[00:10:46] be able to store some furniture for her that she could later use once she secured her own place.

[00:10:52] By the fall, Amy was still married to Todd and living at the farm. On November 6th,

[00:10:57] she had a medical procedure performed and it required limitations to her physical activity.

[00:11:03] She was told by the doctor that she needed to rest for a few days

[00:11:07] and she was restricted from lifting anything heavier than 10 pounds, meaning she was really

[00:11:12] limited with what she could do to help out with the farm work. On November 10th, a friend texted

[00:11:19] her to see how she was feeling, to which she responded with quote, thanks, okay, things still

[00:11:26] very tense around here, just not sure of anything anymore. This would be one of the last

[00:11:32] text messages Amy Mullis would ever send. Despite still recovering from her surgery,

[00:11:38] Amy prepared breakfast that morning for her children and her husband. After they finished

[00:11:43] eating, Todd and his eldest son, the 13-year-old, they got started on farm work in the large hog

[00:11:50] barn which was about the size of a football field. Just after 10 a.m., Amy sent a text

[00:11:56] message to Jerry, the farm hand that she was having an affair with. The text message said,

[00:12:02] do you know what I'm doing today? Cleaning fucking light fixtures in the barn. WTF.

[00:12:09] Then she went to the hog barn where her son and husband were and she started to clean these

[00:12:14] said light fixtures. And I fully understand that having a farm requires long hours and

[00:12:20] really hard work, but Amy, she still wasn't feeling her best after having her surgery.

[00:12:26] From the way this text message reads, it sounds like she was being ordered to clean the light

[00:12:31] fixtures by her husband and she didn't really want to be doing it. To clean them,

[00:12:36] she had to stand on top of a five-gallon bucket in order to reach them. Amy was light-headed

[00:12:43] and she appeared to be unsteady standing on top of the bucket. Her son and husband were

[00:12:49] busy preparing the barn for a new litter of hogs to arrive. When Todd noticed that she was

[00:12:55] kind of swaying back and forth on this bucket while trying to clean the lights, he told her that

[00:13:00] she should probably step down and take a break. He asked Amy if on her way to rest she could go

[00:13:07] to the red shed to get a pet carrier. He was going to be operating heavy machinery that day

[00:13:13] and their barn cat recently had a litter of kittens and he wanted to secure them in this

[00:13:18] carrier so that they didn't accidentally get injured in the process. Again, in my opinion,

[00:13:24] he should have told her to stay in bed that day and rest because this was her first day out of the

[00:13:29] house and she was already having dizzy spells. But he asks her to bring him this large pet carrier

[00:13:35] that weighed around 15 pounds. It was heavier than what she was supposed to be lifting.

[00:13:41] Amy left for the red barn to retrieve the carrier and Todd and his son continued working.

[00:13:47] A short while later, the father and son took a water break at the front office which was

[00:13:52] located at the front of the hog barn. Todd noticed that the pet carrier wasn't sitting

[00:13:57] out front of the barn where he had told his wife to put it, so he asked his son to go have a look

[00:14:02] for his mom. Maybe she decided it was too heavy and just gave up, he wasn't really sure, or

[00:14:08] maybe she just needed some help. Moments later, he heard his son shouting for him so he ran over

[00:14:14] to the red barn to see what was wrong and this is when he saw his wife Amy lying in a

[00:14:20] crouched position face down with a corn rake sticking out of her back. She had been impaled.

[00:14:27] Todd told his son to go get the truck so that they could drive to the hospital while he tried

[00:14:32] to carry Amy out of the barn to help her to see if she had a pulse, but he couldn't because

[00:14:38] that rake was still lodged in her back and it kept getting caught on boxes of fertilizer.

[00:14:43] This was a really small tight space so he had to remove the rake first. When his son arrived

[00:14:49] with the truck, he picked Amy up and he put her in it and they all drove to the hospital.

[00:14:55] While on the way, Todd called 911 and he told them that his wife Amy had basically fallen back

[00:15:01] into this corn rake. They told him to pull over and attempt CPR while they dispatched an

[00:15:07] ambulance to meet him on the side of the road, which he did. He did this until the ambulance arrived.

[00:15:19] I'm on the road. I'm out of breath. What's going on? My wife is not responding. I don't know if she

[00:15:26] tripped. I don't know if she's halfway out the door. I throw my foot over the check on her.

[00:15:33] Okay, we'll get an ambulance going just a second.

[00:15:41] Okay, you're headed to the hospital and she's in your vehicle?

[00:15:45] Yes, and there's no path.

[00:15:46] There's no path.

[00:15:47] Can you pull over?

[00:15:50] Okay, how about you pull over?

[00:15:53] If she might do anything, she's just, I just do nothing.

[00:15:56] Okay, what is your name, sir?

[00:15:59] Todd Moss. You feel anything?

[00:16:03] Amy, Amy, Amy.

[00:16:06] Okay, so what happened that she's not conscious or breathing?

[00:16:10] She fell on a fork. I had two-ton

[00:16:12] of blue fork on her. It was an old fork getting in somewhere and then she was halfway out of the barn.

[00:16:18] Like, I was telling her to get out and then took her out and I looked over there and

[00:16:22] she's leaving. She did not respond to me.

[00:16:25] Okay, sir, do you feel comfortable doing CPR?

[00:16:31] I can try anything.

[00:16:33] Is she flat on the, are you able to get her flat across maybe the seat?

[00:16:36] Yep, I'm able to.

[00:16:38] So, it's fine. Come on, just fine.

[00:16:43] She's cold. Come on.

[00:16:52] Paramedics transported Amy to the hospital where sadly she was pronounced dead on arrival.

[00:16:57] When Todd spoke with the police about what had happened to his wife,

[00:17:01] he told them that he had found her in the barn with a rake in her back but

[00:17:05] he had no idea how it happened. He just kind of assumed that she must have fallen into the rake,

[00:17:12] which was standing upright in the barn because again, she was dizzy that day.

[00:17:16] She was a little unsteady. Maybe she went in there to get the pet carrier

[00:17:20] and she stumbled and fell back onto the rake.

[00:17:23] But there was one problem. The corn rake only had four prongs

[00:17:28] and Amy had six puncture wounds to her back.

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[00:21:16] off your next month while your subscription is active. The pathologist found at least two

[00:21:23] different wound paths, possibly even three, meaning she was stabbed with the rake more than

[00:21:28] once. The wounds were also so deep that the rake had penetrated her back, ruptured her breast

[00:21:35] implants, and then exited out of her front chest. Her lungs and liver were also punctured.

[00:21:41] The medical examiner also noted that Amy had injuries to her chin, her cheekbone,

[00:21:47] her knees, and knuckles of each hand. The injuries to her hands appeared to be defensive

[00:21:52] wounds consistent with a struggle. This freak farm accident was now a murder investigation.

[00:21:58] When the police called Todd in for an interview and asked him how his relationship

[00:22:03] with Amy was, he described it as a very healthy marriage. He said they were tight,

[00:22:10] they had great communication and they hardly ever argued, which everyone who was close to

[00:22:16] the couple knew was an outright lie. Later, he would admit that Amy had an extramarital affair

[00:22:22] with an employee of the farm. He had found out about the affair when he reviewed her cell

[00:22:27] phone records and saw that the two of them had been in constant communication. Todd said he went

[00:22:34] and had a conversation with the man, his wife, and Amy, all of whom denied that there was even

[00:22:41] an affair happening. So he said he kind of just let it go and it was never discussed again.

[00:22:46] When the interviewer began to suggest that they believed he killed his wife,

[00:22:51] Todd responded with, quote, You want me to confess to something I didn't do?

[00:22:56] He denied having any involvement in his wife's death, and he had an alibi. That day, he had been

[00:23:03] working in the hog barn with his eldest son, the 13-year-old, while his wife was out at the

[00:23:08] red barn retrieving that cat carrier. His son, who was sadly the one who had discovered his

[00:23:14] mother's body, would give a witness statement in support of his father's alibi. He said that

[00:23:20] the two were in the barn together the entire time and he never saw his father leave.

[00:23:26] The police would speak with Jerry, the man that Amy had allegedly been having this affair with,

[00:23:32] and he did confirm that the two were romantically involved and the relationship

[00:23:36] continued until about a week before Amy's death. They would meet maybe once a week,

[00:23:42] sometimes twice for sex, sometimes at the farm, and sometimes at a motel room. According to

[00:23:48] Jerry, Amy was terrified of her husband, and at one point she had even confessed to him that

[00:23:53] she believed if she tried to leave Todd, he would, quote, make her disappear.

[00:23:58] Jerry also said that he was fearful for his safety if Todd ever discovered the affair,

[00:24:04] which is why he and Amy had both denied it when they were confronted about it.

[00:24:09] The interviewer asked Jerry where he was on November 10th, the day that Amy had died,

[00:24:14] and he said that he was at home, about 45 minutes away with his son watching college

[00:24:20] football on TV. Of course they wanted to verify that information so they looked through his

[00:24:25] phone records for that day and they found that there was cell phone activity at around 10 45

[00:24:31] a.m., 11 45 a.m., and around 12 45, and this phone it had also pinged close to his home.

[00:24:39] So authorities eliminated Jerry and his wife as suspects in Amy's murder. However, police

[00:24:46] believed that they had enough to establish a motive for Todd to murder his wife. They took

[00:24:51] a closer look at Todd and Amy's relationship, and they discovered that the couple hadn't slept

[00:24:56] in the same bed for the last five months, so this perfect healthy relationship that Todd

[00:25:02] had described, it just wasn't true. They also found that at times Todd was said to be very

[00:25:08] controlling. When they interviewed one of Amy's longtime friends, they learned that anytime she

[00:25:14] left the house, she basically needed to document where she was going, so she had to tell him

[00:25:18] exactly where she was going and exactly when she would be back. This friend also said in

[00:25:25] the weeks leading up to Amy's death, she had become increasingly paranoid that her husband

[00:25:30] might kill her if he found out about her cheating. She even went as far as to tell this friend that

[00:25:36] if she were found dead, Todd did something to her, and if they couldn't find her, there was

[00:25:41] a specific area of woods where they should look for her body. Amy felt like a prisoner in her

[00:25:46] own home and completely under Todd's control. Investigators would execute a search warrant at

[00:25:53] the farm and at the home that Todd and Amy shared. They confiscated all of Todd's electronics,

[00:25:59] including an iPad that he owned. When they reviewed the data on the iPad, they discovered

[00:26:04] that someone had used Todd's Google account on the iPad to search terms such as, quote,

[00:26:10] did ancient cultures kill adulterers? Thrill of the kill? Thrill of the hunt? Famous,

[00:26:17] quote, no thrill like that of hunting man? Once you hunt man, you will always feel the

[00:26:23] What happens to cheaters in history? Killing unfaithful women? What to do with large open

[00:26:30] chest wounds? And organs in the body? They also confiscated a camera system, which included

[00:26:37] two cameras that recorded pretty much the majority of the property. Unfortunately,

[00:26:42] there wasn't a camera pointed at the red barn where Amy's body had been found. However,

[00:26:47] there was a camera which pointed at the yard space between the red barn and the hog barn

[00:26:53] where Todd had been working that day. When they reviewed the footage, they found all of

[00:26:58] the recordings from September 11th to October 29th, but then there was an empty gap between

[00:27:04] October 30th to November 10th, the day that Amy was killed. It was really strange for just

[00:27:11] that particular week to be missing, but unfortunately forensics couldn't determine

[00:27:16] whether or not the footage had been deleted or if it just simply wasn't recorded during this time.

[00:27:22] Still, this was enough for the police to arrest Todd Mullis for the murder of his wife, 39-year-old

[00:27:28] Amy Mullis. They believed that Todd had found out about the affair and how Amy was now

[00:27:34] getting ready to leave him. He knew that through a divorce, he had a ton to lose,

[00:27:41] including the farms that he had built from the ground up, and as he had stated before,

[00:27:45] he was not going to let that happen, so the police believed that's why he had killed her.

[00:27:51] He even set it up so that his son would be the one to find the body when he went to go check

[00:27:56] on Amy in the red barn. But what about Todd's alibi, that he was with his son the whole time

[00:28:02] in the hog barn, which was backed up by his 13-year-old son? Days before Todd was to go

[00:28:08] on trial, his son kind of altered his story. So initially, the son claimed that he was

[00:28:15] with his father all day, so his dad just could not have snuck out to kill Amy.

[00:28:20] But now, the son was kind of admitting that he had lost sight of his dad just a few times

[00:28:26] when he went to go get a drink of water at the front of the barn, but he said that this

[00:28:30] would have been only less than a minute each time. With the physical evidence showing that

[00:28:35] the corn rake had entered Amy's back more than once, maybe as many as three times,

[00:28:41] it was determined that Amy was murdered. This was no freak accident, according to the pathologist.

[00:28:49] Todd's defense team never even tried to argue that this wasn't a murder.

[00:28:53] The question was whether or not Todd was the one who did it. His saving grace was going to

[00:28:58] be his alibi and the statement by his eldest son, but now with that story slightly altered,

[00:29:05] it was a huge hit to his defense. Still, his son swore that he never saw any blood on his

[00:29:12] father at any time and he was only out of his sight for periods of less than a minute, so

[00:29:17] not long enough to go and kill Amy and then come back clean. According to Todd's defense

[00:29:23] team, there was absolutely no way that he would have had enough time to go to the red barn,

[00:29:28] stab Amy with the corn rake, and then get back to the hog barn without a drop of blood

[00:29:34] on his clothing. And the prosecution had a big problem. There was no physical evidence tying Todd

[00:29:41] to the murder. What they had was a motive, the missing security camera footage and then those

[00:29:47] iPad searches. There wasn't any fingerprints or DNA recovered from the scene that would actually

[00:29:53] tie Todd to the murder. At trial, Todd would take the stand in his own defense,

[00:29:59] highly unusual in a high profile murder trial like this. He was questioned about why he

[00:30:04] didn't call 911 right away and he responded with, quote, I just wanted to help her. I just wanted

[00:30:11] to let's go to the hospital. There's something wrong. I'm a doer, I guess. I just, I wanted

[00:30:18] to help. I was in reaction mode. I wanted to get her to the hospital. When asked about the

[00:30:26] missing security camera footage, he said that he believed his cats had accidentally knocked down

[00:30:31] the antennas. He said he didn't notice it until the day after the murder when he was asked if

[00:30:36] there were any cameras on the property and then he looked and he found the antennas knocked down

[00:30:41] and hanging by the floor. He had no idea at that point how long that they hadn't been

[00:30:46] recording, but it is interesting because there was a full week of footage missing, not just

[00:30:51] the day that Amy died. So if someone had deleted it, they deleted the whole week of footage,

[00:30:57] not just that one day. This does kind of add some validity to what Todd is saying that it was

[00:31:03] just accidentally knocked down and he didn't notice it until he was asked about the cameras

[00:31:07] when they were investigating Amy's death. So what about those searches that were done on his

[00:31:12] iPad while logged into his Google account? He denied ever making those searches and he

[00:31:18] said that several people, including Amy, frequently used his iPad. The defense presented

[00:31:24] an alternate suspect that also had a possible motive for killing Amy, the man she was having

[00:31:30] an affair with, Jerry Frasher. According to friends of Amy, she thought that they might

[00:31:36] actually have a future together and she had even mentioned wanting to marry him someday,

[00:31:42] but Jerry never had any intention of ever leaving his wife and children.

[00:31:47] For her, it was a romantic relationship with feelings, but for Jerry, it was just casual sex.

[00:31:54] As Amy was getting closer to divorcing Todd, Jerry may have gotten nervous about his own

[00:32:00] family falling apart and decided that he needed to get rid of Amy. It's true, he did have an

[00:32:06] alibi for that day and records showed that at least his cell phone was at his home located

[00:32:12] 45 minutes away at the time of the murder. However, the defense, they argued that most

[00:32:18] people know to leave your cell phone at home if you're committing a murder because that's one

[00:32:23] of the first things that they're going to look at. They're going to track your cell phone.

[00:32:27] Todd's trial lasted a week and then the jury sat for deliberations. It was a really

[00:32:33] difficult trial because there wasn't any physical evidence that tied Todd to the killing.

[00:32:39] Half of the jury believed that Todd was guilty while the other half was mostly undecided,

[00:32:45] at least initially. They had to determine Todd Mullis' fate and all they had was

[00:32:51] circumstantial evidence. After around seven hours of deliberating, the jury decided that

[00:32:58] was guilty of first degree murder. Todd would address the court one last time saying,

[00:33:04] quote, I did not do this. This is supposed to be America where you shouldn't have to

[00:33:10] prove your innocence. I thought it was guilty until innocent until proven guilty.

[00:33:17] I feel this was the other way around and I was a faithful and loving husband.

[00:33:22] Todd was sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole. Still to this day,

[00:33:27] he maintains his innocence and he's working with his lawyers to try to get a new trial.

[00:33:33] They believe that there were missteps in the first trial and they question whether Amy was

[00:33:37] even murdered at all or if that call was made too quickly. They also question how the

[00:33:44] 13-year-old eldest son's testimony changed over time. Todd's trial was a long, long

[00:33:50] time ago. How he had initially said that he never lost sight of his dad and how that story changed

[00:33:56] only after extensive interviews with the lawyer of his mother. Either way, it really did put this

[00:34:02] son in a difficult situation. Whether he's supposed to defend his father, whether he's

[00:34:06] supposed to support his mother, whether he thinks his father is guilty, I can't imagine.

[00:34:11] So was Amy Mullis murdered or was this a freak accident? Did her husband Todd kill her or

[00:34:18] could it have been someone else? I'll be following this case closely, but in the end,

[00:34:23] it's important to remember that no matter what Amy may have done in her marriage,

[00:34:28] having an affair does not mean that she deserved to die. She was a loving mother and her

[00:34:34] children were her life. Ultimately, it is her children who have had to pay the ultimate price.

[00:34:40] First with the loss of their mother, followed by the loss of their father,

[00:34:44] followed by the loss of their father, who is now serving a life sentence in prison.

[00:34:49] But I'd love to hear what you think, so make sure you let me know in the comments.

[00:34:54] That's it for me tonight. If you want to reach out, you can find me on Facebook

[00:34:58] at Serial Knapper. I also have a Serial Knapper True Crime Discussion Group.

[00:35:02] It's called Serial Society. You can search for it on Facebook and I'll also have the link

[00:35:07] in my show notes. I would love to chat with you about this case and all of the other cases

[00:35:11] that I cover, plus whatever is happening in true crime these days. You can find my audio on Apple

[00:35:16] or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. I post all of my episodes in video format over on

[00:35:22] YouTube, so go check it out. And if you're watching on YouTube, I would love if you could

[00:35:25] give me a thumbs up and subscribe. I'm over on X, formerly known as Twitter,

[00:35:30] at Serial underscore Knapper and I post things on TikTok. Serial Knapper Nick,

[00:35:33] that's all one word. Until next time, sweet dreams, stay kind, especially in the comments.

[00:35:41] Bye.